Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 8th, 2011

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I know, but I'm just letting you know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

If people were allowed to complete their answers, not get the same question three times, and not be berated and lectured to by committee members, it would be far more businesslike.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I agree with you. We would certainly get better results if we proceeded in that manner.

Madam Ratansi.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Young seems to be new to this committee and new to the fact that you have been here before and have not complied with the order of the committee. It is important that you comply with the order.

You have made two contradictory statements already. You said you asked the clerk for clarification, and then you said you asked the chair for clarification. Why did others who looked at this give all the information they had to give, whereas you're the only one who is withholding information? What is it that you have to hide?

[Lynne Hamilton]

Let me clarify. I did misspeak. We did speak with the clerk's office on numerous occasions to try to get clarification. If in your eyes we have failed to comply, let me assure you that I have the e-mails with me today. I am happy to turn them over.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

We had a motion ordering the witness to submit her communication. If she has brought the communication with her, as it has already been five days, I suggest that she kindly give this over to the clerk, because it will have to be translated. You would have saved us a lot of problems, because this communication needs to be translated into both official languages.

We don't want to have to bring you here again. It is important that you respect Parliament. This is such a simple motion. It asked you to produce papers. I cannot understand why a person in your position with your capabilities does not understand these things.

Can somebody pick up the documents from Ms. Hamilton?

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have 20 seconds or so.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Fine. I'll give up my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Certainly. I'll try a point of order from you.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

The witness referred to conversations with the clerk. Did our present clerk have conversations with the witness?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I believe it was with our previous clerk.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That's what I was afraid of.

Could we check with the previous clerk to make sure we're getting the straight story?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I will ask that question.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Our new fantastic clerk will ask questions of our old fantastic clerk to see when the conversations took place.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

So both fantastic clerks will solve the problem. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes. Thank you.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have one clarification. I hope the documents are not redacted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

They're being handed in today. They'll need to be translated. This is the fifth day. We were asked for five days in your motion, so I think the witness--

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm just saying redacted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Excuse me, please don't.... I'll try not to interrupt you when you're speaking--or I will make a point of doing it, and I'm not sure you want that.

Mr. Lukiwski, you're up. Let's go.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Hamilton, for being here today.

Let's cut to the chase here. Really, I think the reason you're here, Ms. Hamilton, is that many committee members at your last appearance, quite frankly, were questioning your honesty, the veracity of some of the statements you made, particularly when you said that you had not known the contents of the e-mails you received from Mr. Ullyatt and you didn't realize that it was a confidential or draft document.

The other lobbyists, save for one, disagreed with you on that point. They all indicated that they knew exactly what was happening. One or two of the lobbyists apologized to the committee for forwarding on that confidential information, information they knew was confidential. You, on the other hand, have stated publicly, and have reiterated your position again today, that you didn't know what was in the document when you first received it. Several hours later, the next day in fact, when you did examine the information, you thought it was information that was publicly available. You didn't realize that it was confidential. That's the point many of us on the committee are having problems with.

I'll tell you why I have problems with that. It just seems to be a common-sense thing to me, more than anything else. You stated, for example, that you printed off the attachment when you received it but didn't read it. All of us, and I'm sure you're no exception, receive literally dozens and perhaps sometimes hundreds of e-mails over the course of a day or two. We're living in an era of computer viruses and spam. We've all been educated—I'm sure you have, as well—not to open an attachment unless you know it's from a trustworthy source and you know what's in it. Yet you say that you opened the attachment and printed it without knowing what was in it. How can you explain that? Isn't that a bit odd?