Evidence of meeting #49 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Even though you left several years ago, Mr. Cappe, I gather you are still following the work of Parliament?
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
When we discussed documents relating to Afghanistan, the government said it could not release some of them for national security reasons. In this case, it simply refused, saying that they were Cabinet confidences.
I'm not sure I fully understood what was said earlier. When Cabinet would decide not to disclose certain information because it was a Cabinet confidence, would you provide the public or Parliament with the rationale for not disclosing that information—for example, for reasons relating to public safety or national security?
As an Individual
We would generally say why certain information was not disclosed.
NDP
As an Individual
Apparently. I did not see the response issued by the government on February 17.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
According to what you were saying earlier, when Cabinet meets, there are discussions, and if everyone feels comfortable and openly discusses the issues with a view to making the right decision, that makes for good government. Is that correct?
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It's like everywhere else. A political party may hold caucus meetings behind closed doors, but if it decides on a certain policy after that, it is preferable to make Canadians aware of that, rather than keeping it a secret. How was that policy arrived at? That is something that could be decided internally. It's the same with Cabinet: people talk, without anyone from the outside being there to listen, and a decision is ultimately made.
Yet the motion says: “That the committee request the Department of Finance Canada to provide it with the estimated cost of the F-35 aircraft per airplane, and how these costs fit into the fiscal framework [...]” Do you see that as a Cabinet confidence?
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
All right, and what about the “original estimates and the final costs of hosting the G8 and the G20 summits”?
As an Individual
No, probably not, but that depends on exactly what the question is.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I understand. You have a lot of respect for Cabinet and for Parliament.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Parliamentarians require accurate information in order to make decisions.
As an Individual
Since Charles I was decapitated, people have been very respectful of Parliament.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you.
I would just like to correct or clarify things. The people of Canada use the Access to Information Act to get information about what their government is doing. Parliament is not subject to the act. We tell the government what to do. Parliament is not subject to the Access to Information Act.
If it's the will of Parliament to know something, we have a right to know it. We don't have to stand in line to the Access of Information Act, cap in hand--no pun intended--and wait for it to grant us information.
As an Individual
Aside from using my name in vain, I think you're right to a point, when it is the will of Parliament. My source on this is the Speaker. The Speaker has explained that, and I think correctly so. That's different from an MP who wants certain information.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Yes. If it's the collective will of Parliament that this information shall be released, even if it isn't in the best interests of the country, frankly, that's when you would have to hope that Parliament uses its collective wisdom to not put the country at risk under national security or reveal cabinet confidences. You have to have--what is that term now--a public interest override to some of this stuff, do you not?
As an Individual
This is an important point, Mr. Chairman. There is no public interest override on cabinet confidences. I think that's really important. Some elements of this have a balancing and other elements of the act do not. Cabinet confidence is one of them that is an absolute exclusion.
