Evidence of meeting #49 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you. I did let you go 30 seconds longer, so you know I'm not picking on you in any way.
We're going to have to have about a four-minute round in order to meet our time goal, to finish at the bottom of the hour.
Mr. McGuinty, four minutes, please.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Thank you, sir.
Madame Legault, thanks for being here. I appreciate it.
I'd like to pick up exactly where you left off. Just a moment ago you were asked by a Conservative MP about costs. What is the total budget for your information commissioner office?
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
My total budget is roughly $12 million--
12:10 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
--including all the employee benefits and so on.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay. I would suggest that the government, instead of asking about the costs surrounding your mandate, ought to be examining, for example, its $26 million being spent in nine weeks, right now, on advertising on television; or even better, the $27 million they spent on 8,500 billboards across this country; or even better, the $412 million they spent on advertising in four years. Rather than taking it to your office to say we ought to be examining costs, they should look in the mirror first.
Madame Legault, there is a lot of confusion right now for Canadians who are watching this proceeding. They're not sure.... Your office was involved and is involved--according to media reports--in all kinds of investigations. I want to make sure that Canadians understand that this process is different from what your office is undertaking.
For example, the RCMP has been called in to investigate a former Conservative staffer. You're widely reported in the media as saying you're investigating the Department of Foreign Affairs, National Defence, and Public Works. I'm not sure who has initiated this, but it's also reported that your office has launched a government-wide investigation of political interference on access to information requests. Are you in a position to help Canadians understand the difference between what you're doing there and what's going on here? Are the media reports correct, so they understand this distinction?
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
First of all, what goes on in Parliament is a matter for parliamentary procedure. My responsibility is under the Access to Information Act and complaints that are made and the investigations that I do into these complaints.
What I have on the go now has been a matter in the public domain for about a year, really. I did not issue a report publicly this week. There was a longstanding investigation into a matter of the processing of an access request and the potential interference with the processing of an access request at the Department of Public Works. The complainant was informed by my office of the results of this investigation on Monday, March 14. The complainant happens to be a journalist with The Canadian Press, and the journalist, who has no confidentiality requirement, decided to publicly disclose details of this.
I am planning to table a special report to Parliament on Monday, March 21. That will be my report about this matter to Parliament, given parliamentary interest. At that time--
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay, let me just.... I only have four minutes. Thank you very much for that. Let Canadians find the CP articles and draw their own conclusions, is what you're saying. So I appreciate that.
May I read something to you for a second, Madame Legault? Here is a quote: “Without adequate access to key information about government policies and programs, citizens and parliamentarians cannot make informed decisions, and incompetent”--or worse--“ or corrupt governance can be hidden under a cloak of secrecy.”
I would expect that's something you would agree with.
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I do agree.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Because that was uttered by one Stephen Harper, as a member of Parliament, I believe on June 7, 2005, in an editorial in The Montreal Gazette.
So we're having a hard time here squaring.... Perhaps you can help us. How do we square Mr. Harper's public pronouncements about hiding corrupt or incompetent governance under a cloak of secrecy and the fact that we're now being forced here in this committee to drag this government kicking and screaming to heel, to abide by the will of Parliament, and share core information with everyday Canadians about things like what a fighter plane is going to cost? They're paying for it, aren't they?
Could you help us understand?
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Mr. McGuinty.
I hope we'll get to that answer. Maybe someone else will ask the same one.
Mr. Reid, you're next, for four minutes.
March 16th, 2011 / 12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the commissioner for being here.
I promise not to cut you off in your answers, unlike the past two questioners.
I listened with some amusement to my colleague Mr. McGuinty speaking about the $12.6 million budget for your office and his concerns about other budget items. Given what his brother has done to the Ontario budget, I as an Ontario taxpayer wish that a similar solicitude for millions, and indeed billions, were shown by all members of the McGuinty family.
However, I want to quickly ask you about your budget. It is $12.6 million right now?
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
My budget is not quite $12 million. I just don't have the correct figure.
The reason I'm saying that is because we did get emergency funding from the government this year in order to deal with our cases.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
So it's $12 million plus the emergency funding, which is a “one time only”.
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It is about $12 million in total--
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
--including employee benefits and so on.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
But the emergency funding is beyond the $12 million or is part of the $12 million?
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
For this year, it's part of that. I mean, $400,000; it's either $12.4 million or somewhere around there.
I can get you the exact figure.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay. But the emergency funding is about $400,000, I gather.
12:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Okay.
Am I right that in the last year the Liberals were in government your budget was only $7.6 million?
12:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That's correct. I can say that it was even less than that. The budget has more than doubled certainly since I've been both assistant commissioner and commissioner at the OIC.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. Godin made reference to or essentially complained that a number of the adjustments you suggested weren't included in the Accountability Act. I thought that opened up the opportunity to discuss a little bit some of the best practices that exist at the provincial level in Canada, which seems to me to be the logical place to turn.
Are there any particular practices, if we are discussing policy options for the future, that ought to be considered and that you could point us to, options that are currently in place in the access legislation and in the parallel office to your own office in any of the provinces?
I realize that you have limited time, so maybe I'll give you the rest of it to offer some thoughts on that.
12:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
What are the best practices in provincial and territorial institutions? Mr. Chair, it's a very lengthy answer, I'm afraid.
The short answer to the honourable member would be that, in my view, the federal government would be wise to look at the provinces and the territories. Some of the provinces, particularly B.C., Alberta, and Ontario, have had their legislation reviewed many times, and I would say they have much more modern pieces of access to information legislation. I think it would be very wise to look at what's there.
That would be the short answer.