Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 21st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Brison.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My proposal was a constructive one, and contrary to Mr. Young's rhetorical flourish, it's obvious there's no coalition around this. I'm fine with leaving them in. I just don't see that it adds much, given the testimony of Mr. Cappe, Mr. Walsh, and others. I'm absolutely fine with leaving them in as well. It's not a huge deal for me at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Brison.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

There seems to be a coalition to keep them in.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Lukiwski, on this point still or...?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes, quickly. It appears that with Mr. Brison's acquiescence we're going to keep the paragraph in.

I was just going to say that I agree with Monsieur Godin. Frankly, until we get to paragraph 15, the first 14 paragraphs are basically setting the stage, just saying what is, and then we get into testimony from witnesses. That's when there's going to be some discussion here. I see no reason to eliminate anything, actually, up to paragraph 15.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, let's see if we can get there, then.

Are paragraphs 5 and 6 okay with the group?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Is 7?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

It's okay with the group.

Are there any comments on paragraphs 8, 9, and 10? Seeing none.... You're being very cooperative now, and we like that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's a new coalition.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

The chair is not included in that.

On paragraphs 11, 12, 13, and 14 on that page, there are no comments, so we will accept them as written?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm hearing sighs of relief from the analysts, by the way.

Are there any comments on paragraphs 15, 16, 17, and 18 on page 5?

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I'm going to refer to Mr. Cappe's testimony, and I'm going to be quoting a little bit from the--

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Which paragraph is that from, Tom?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Well, it could be added as a separate paragraph. I'm just saying that in the body of Mr. Cappe's testimony, there was some information he presented at committee that is not included here. It was in response to a question I had asked, and it basically said that our government had provided information that flowed out of the cabinet documents. In other words, we didn't breach cabinet confidence because we didn't produce cabinet documents, but we produced information that flowed out of those documents, which was first tabled in the House back in February. Mr. Cappe responded to that--and I'm going to quote here:

but I would say that the approach you have described is correct: you don't reveal a cabinet confidence, but the information that was presented and that went into the decision-making is now relevant to Parliament and should be disclosed. We heard both the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Public Safety say that the binders do not contain cabinet confidences, but they do contain the information you need. I'm not passing judgment on whether that's the right information, but that's what they said, and I think that's the right approach.

I think that's relevant to the discussion we certainly had, and it's obviously factual since Mr. Cappe is quoted here, and I think it should be included in the report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Are you suggesting a spot for us, another paragraph above paragraph 17?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Given the way it flows, Chair, I think it should probably be an additional paragraph after the current paragraph 18.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay, so it would become a new paragraph 19.

Is there anything else on that topic and on paragraphs 15 through 18?

Madame DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Chair, does the interpreter have the English text so that she can provide me with a good interpretation? It is difficult to understand. Would it be possible...

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll make sure that happens.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I appreciate Madame DeBellefeuille's concerns. I'll see if we can get the transcript en français.