Evidence of meeting #100 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was language.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Stéphan Déry  Chief Executive Officer, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Matthew Ball  Acting Vice-President, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Jérémie Séror  Director and Associate Dean, University of Ottawa, Official Languages and Bilingualism Institute
Johanne Lacasse  Director General, Eeyou Istchee James Bay Regional Government
Melissa Saganash  Director of Cree-Québec Relations, Grand Council of the Crees/Cree Nation Government, Eeyou Istchee James Bay Regional Government

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Welcome to meeting number 100 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs as we continue our study on the use of indigenous languages in proceedings of the House of Commons.

We are pleased to be joined this morning by officials from the Translation Bureau at Public Services and Procurement Canada: Stéphan Déry, Chief Executive Officer; and Matthew Ball, Acting Vice-President.

Just before we do that, I have a couple of questions for the committee. First, we received two long articles from the AFN. They are not directly or totally related to the study, but they are on aboriginal languages. We can't distribute them because they are only in English, and they are very thick, so they're not normally translated.

There are two choices. One is that we can put you in touch with the person at AFN if you want the articles, and they can give them to you. The other is that the committee could unanimously agree that we can distribute them in English.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

How big are they? Can they not just be translated? Is that not—

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

They are fairly—

11 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

There must be a practical limit, Mr. Chair, on what we normally translate and what we don't.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

I will ask the clerk.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

These are obviously above the normal limit. What is the normal limit on things that we translate?

11 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Lauzon

It depends on what is being submitted to the committee. Normally, for briefs, we will translate up to 10 pages. For anything longer than 10 pages, we will ask for an executive summary, which we will translate.

I think one of these is about 20 pages, and the other one is similar in length.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Personally, I would be okay with translating them. I realize that there is a certain expense involved, but this is probably likely to be germane.

11 a.m.

NDP

Romeo Saganash NDP Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC

I think that, as a matter of principle, we should get a translation of the documents. I'm here on a matter of principle trying to get indigenous languages in this House. I'm not going to let that go by. I think the documents should be translated.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay. Is that what the consensus of the committee is, to get them translated?

11 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

You were saying that they're not even that related, so what's the cost going to be? Is there a purpose in our spending that money, or should we just leave it?

11 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

We have the experts here.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

There is one article, “An Aboriginal Languages Act:”—that's the act that's going to come to Parliament—“Reconsidering Equality on the 40th Anniversary of Canada's Official Languages Act.” The other one is an article by someone of Ojibwa and Canadian ancestry who is a member of Nipissing First Nation. It is called “Reconciliation and the Revitalization of Indigenous Languages”.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

It's hard to tell from the titles whether they are relevant or not. The second one certainly sounds relevant enough to put the effort in.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Whatever the committee wants, Mr. Chair.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Is there consensus to translate?

11:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay. Thank you.

We're winding down. Thursday is our last meeting with witnesses on this, which we can discuss a bit later. Then, hopefully, right away we can give instructions to the analysts.

I would tell committee, although I'm sure they all understand, that these are functionally our most key witnesses because they are the ones who have to put the idea into practice, into something that can actually technically be done. Hopefully, you will ask a lot of questions of this group because they are the ones who do translation, the ones who have to provide the facilities, the translators, and everything possible.

We will turn it over to Mr. Déry for his opening statement. Then we will have some questions.

11:05 a.m.

Stéphan Déry Chief Executive Officer, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, committee members, good morning.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that we are meeting on the traditional territories of the Algonquin nation.

Thank you for inviting me to appear before this committee to talk about the use of indigenous languages in House of Commons proceedings.

My name is Stéphan Déry and I am the Chief Executive Officer of the Translation Bureau. Here with me is my colleague, Matthew Ball, Vice-President of Service to Parliament and interpretation.

The translation bureau provides translation and interpretation services in indigenous languages to the House of Commons and the Senate on an as-needed basis, when requested by Parliament. For example, during the meetings of this committee of the last few weeks, it is the bureau that ensured interpretation services in indigenous languages. For these reasons, we maintain an up-to-date list of approximately 100 interpreters who work in 20 different indigenous languages.

Before going into greater detail about our services in indigenous languages, allow me to speak briefly about the bureau.

Established in 1934, the Translation Bureau has its foundation in the Translation Bureau Act, which mandates it to serve departments and agencies as well as the two Houses of Parliament on all matters related to the translation and revision of documents, as well as interpretation, sign language, and terminology.

We are the sole in-house service provider to one of the world's largest consumers of translation services, the Government of Canada and Parliament, which makes us a major player in what is, in every sense, a global industry. Our translation services are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, via secure infrastructure, and in over 100 languages and dialects.

In concrete terms, the bureau fulfilled approximately 170,000 requests in 2017-18, mostly for translation, or nearly 305 million words for departments and agencies and over 49 million words for Parliament.

In official languages, we provide over 5,000 days of interpretation for Parliament, nearly 7,000 days of conference interpretation, and over 4,500 hours of closed captioning for sessions in the House of Commons, the Senate, and your committees. Lastly, we supply over 9,700 hours of visual interpretation.

I now would like to talk to you about what we do for indigenous languages. The data that I just mentioned contextualizes the translation bureau's current capacity in providing services in indigenous languages.

The bureau is well equipped to meet the current demand, in particular through partnerships it has established over time with a number of indigenous organizations. Our mandate is clear: we are here to serve Parliament.

If Parliament chooses to increase the demand for services in indigenous languages, as the exclusive provider of language services, the translation bureau will regard it as its duty to meet that demand.

Requests for services in indigenous languages are few and far between compared with the overall volume of translation and interpretation requests for all languages combined. Thus, of the 170,000 translation and interpretation requests we handled in 2017-18, approximately 760, or 0.5% of the total volume, involved indigenous languages. Of those 760 requests, nearly 85% were for Inuit languages. The other requests were spread among 28 language combinations.

As for interpretation, requests from the House of Commons and Senate committees have totalled 33 days of interpretation in indigenous languages since 2016, primarily in Cree—East and Plains—Inuktitut, and Dene.

In 2009, the bureau worked with the Senate on a pilot project aimed at providing interpretation services in lnuktitut to senators Charlie Watt and Willie Adams, stemming from one of the recommendations in the fifth report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament. Pursuant to the affirmation of aboriginal rights of the first nations, the report recommended that the use of lnuktitut be allowed in Senate deliberations, in addition to English and French.

The interpretation services were provided on several occasions, and the senators seemed pleased with the service provided. However, although greater capacity has been established in lnuktitut than other indigenous languages, identifying interpreters with parliamentary experience proved to be a challenge.

I would like now to touch on two operational challenges for the bureau.

First, your committee has discussed the possibility of using remote interpretation services.

The Translation Bureau conducted a pilot project in 2014 to test the viability of such a service. While the results were encouraging, there are still issues that need to be addressed before we can offer this service on a regular basis. The two key issues are audio quality and bandwidths, which can be erratic, resulting in variable audio quality for interpreters and clients alike. We are committed, though, to continuing to explore this possibility further as technology improves.

Second, as other witnesses before this committee have explained, since there are approximately 90 indigenous languages and dialects in Canada, the capacity of skilled interpreters is limited. The translation bureau's ability to assess their language skills is equally restricted.

This capacity is based in part on the limited demand for this service. Should Parliament create a more sustained demand, the bureau would be prepared to play an active role in increasing capacity, in partnership with indigenous communities and organizations. Over time, this service could be offered to Parliament on a regular basis, thus contributing to the preservation of indigenous languages in Canada.

I would now like to describe the work the bureau has undertaken to foster new relationships and build new partnerships, in anticipation of an increased demand, which would support the government's objective to renew the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples.

We have assigned a senior interpreter to assess the bureau's capacity, and then leverage our expertise in linguistic services. We want to develop strategic partnerships to enhance capacity development. To do so, we are in contact with the Assembly of First Nations, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, the Inuit language authority, and the Grand Council of the Crees, as well as with training institutions such as the Arctic College of Canada and the First Nations University of Canada.

We are also working in partnership with the University of Alberta's Canadian Indigenous Languages and Literacy Development Institute, to promote the interpretation field amongst students, over the coming summer.

Since 2003, we have also been working regularly with the Government of Nunavut, among other things to provide terminology training to Inuit translators. The focus of our most recent project, in 2017, was our terminology tool, Termium, for which we created a terminology directory that now contains some 2,300 records in lnuktitut.

In other words, Mr. Chair, we are always looking for new avenues that will allow us to broaden our partnerships and increase our pool of indigenous language translators and interpreters. As indicated earlier, we are meeting the current demand and are taking the necessary steps to build a pool of additional resources.

In conclusion, I'd like to draw your attention to the new vision for the translation bureau, which is to make it a world-class centre of excellence in language services. This vision is notably based on the need to strengthen the bureau's ties with its employees and clients, but also with its partners. It also relies on training and the next generation of language professionals. These are the foundations on which we intend to build, if you, the Parliament, request services from the bureau in indigenous languages on a more consistent basis. Our mandate is clear: we are here to serve Parliament.

In closing, I would like to underscore the work of our interpreter in the interpretation booth near us, thanks to whom today's meeting has taken place in both official languages.

Thank you for your time and attention. I would be pleased to answer any of your questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you. Meegwetch.

We'll start out with Mr. Graham.

May 1st, 2018 / 11:15 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Thank you for being here.

I'll go right into it.

You said in your opening remarks that translation is provided on request. When Robert-Falcon Ouellette requested translation for his statement in the House, which started this whole process, I'm wondering what happened. Why was he refused and what could have been done differently?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Stéphan Déry

Thank you for the question. I'm pleased to respond.

For us, the more lead time.... As we're not providing these services on a consistent basis, we have to call on external resources to be able to provide the service. When we had the pilot with the Senate in 2009—and this was more constant—we were asking for 48 hours turnaround. There was an intention that this would happen and sometimes, when we couldn't find an interpreter, they would move the committee or they would change the date of the committee, or something like that. The more lead time we have and the more structured the requests are, the better it is since then we have time to find an interpreter. Since there's no continuous demand from Parliament, the interpreters are taking other placements and doing work for other clients.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Okay. However, in this specific case that generated the question of privilege that got us to this debate, he had requested translation services. He offered to provide text to the translation booths, but that was declined. I'm wondering what the rules are and how that can be fixed.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Stéphan Déry

It could be fixed if we had reasonable notice, so that we can have an interpreter for Cree or Inuktitut, so that they can be interpreted by a real interpreter who understands their language. If you're okay, I'll respond a little bit in French for those—

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Go ahead.