Evidence of meeting #8 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gifts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
The closer you are to that decision point, then the more acute this becomes.
11:45 a.m.
Director, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Exactly. Going back to the insurance brokers' association, a few years back members had come to us and asked, “Can we accept this gift?” because they all had received blankets or.... Actually it wasn't that case, it was that they were doing promotions—
11:45 a.m.
NDP
11:45 a.m.
Director, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
At that point we said they couldn't, the reason being that there was a piece of legislation they were pushing in the House in committee. We had said at that point that members sitting on that committee should not be accepting those gifts from the insurance brokers.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Right. Now that's a high level of organization to the extent that there are a lot of moving parts to this place. Most of us focus on the things that we're...so you do run the risk that you wouldn't know there was a private member's bill.
11:45 a.m.
Director, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Again, if you're not sitting around the table, if you're not in the committee, that would—
11:45 a.m.
NDP
11:45 a.m.
Director, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The House is more general. It's all MPs, at which point we would say that it's more committee focused. Committee members cannot accept, but others can accept.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Alright. I'll defer. I'll yield the floor now, but I would say to Mr. Reid that it sounds a little more definitive than we've had in the past. It makes me wish I hadn't sent back that winter kit now if I get stuck on the highway. Well, it has gone back. I wanted to be safe.
Thanks, Chair.
11:45 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Can I make one more observation?
In the case where you have to send stuff back, there could be a system whereby you dumped it somewhere that was known and they could come and collect it or something.
I've heard this problem from a number of people who didn't know what to do with the stuff and they didn't want to spend the money to get it back. It seems to me that's a problem that could find a solution somehow.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
Thank you.
Just before we go on to the last seven-minute round, you mentioned hesitancy in doing your guidelines because we have to approve them. I think you would find goodwill in the committee here. As chair of the agenda committee, any guideline you gave us we would deal with fairly quickly. I wouldn't let that hold you up.
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Okay. Around 2010 I put something in, and that's the thing that finally got approved in 2015 in June by that particular committee. I stopped drafting these things at that point. I thought, what's the point?
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell
I didn't hear any objections from the committee, so I think we would try to move quickly on your guidelines.
Ms. Vandenbeld, you have seven minutes.
February 18th, 2016 / 11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I'm going to share my time with Ms. Sahota.
Before I get to my question, and following up on what Mr. Christopherson was saying, what about regifting? For instance I'm always approached by organizations asking, “Can you give something to our silent auction?” If I took the gifts we got and gave them to these charities, would that be me receiving the gift or just collecting them and giving them away?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's you receiving the gift. I've been express on that. Yes. I mean you have received it and then you're deciding what to do with it. Sorry.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
That clarifies that.
The other question I have is about those 13 recommendations you mentioned at the outset. There were 23. There were 10 included in the report and 13 that were not included in the report. I've heard you also saying a number of things, and I think what I'm hearing is that you recommended some things along the way, for instance, consistency with the Lobbying Act, and between the act and the code, and then the guidelines and things.
Was that included in those 13 recommendations that didn't get included?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I didn't make any reference to the Lobbying Act. Some of these issues have come up recently, actually. With respect to the act and the code, that was one of them.
It was a soft recommendation, because I said just do what you can. I understand that the members really don't want the code to be an act and they don't want to get the government involved in any way with the stuff that goes on in the House. There are all sorts of issues there. But certainly there's nothing wrong with making the words say the same thing. Making the same words with the same procedures would help.
You know, it's not too bad now. There have been a number of movements over the last five or six years, one way or another, to make them more similar, such as in the case of gifts.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Do you have any idea why those 13 recommendations were not accepted? Are they substantive? Are they things that we could potentially—
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I'm astounded that they managed to do 10, to tell you the truth. I was just blown over, but delighted.
I think it was just because they only had so much time, but I don't know. I wasn't there. In fact, after I appeared, and I think there was one other person from B.C. who appeared, they all went in camera. I've no idea what the discussions were, but I think that probably they chose them because they thought they were either important or easy, low-hanging fruit.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
But there would be nothing precluding this committee from looking at those recommendations again, would there?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. That was the recommendation of the last committee.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Are there others since then that you would put forward?
11:50 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I would have to think about it, but I rather shot my bolt with the 23 that are there. I had something like 100 when I made my recommendations concerning the act.
Two of them were very complicated ones, and they're technical amendments. There are problems with the way that certain sections were drafted. Two of my recommendations are really a set of recommendations, and I've redrafted them. I've given you drafts to consider—I used to be a legislative drafter, as a matter of fact—to replace the way the sections are organized, because they're either organized in a confusing way or there are some inconsistencies that need to be fixed up. If you dove into those.... They are technical but they're really not terribly substantive.
There are a few that are more substantive, and there a couple of general ones. For example, I said, “For heaven's sake, why don't you think about doing a code about political behaviour?” But I also said that I'm probably not the appropriate person to monitor that particular code.
There are one or like that, too, but there are certainly enough of them to look at.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
As my colleague Anita just mentioned, out of the 13.... I know we're going to be getting the list, but since we have you here today I'd like your opinion on the matter. What would be a priority from the ones that were missed?