Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 4th, 2020

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair. My question is for Monsieur Patrice.

Last week, among a number of witnesses who appeared before committee, there was an individual by the name of Chantal Bernier, who was with a global privacy and cybersecurity group.

As part of her testimony, she talked about the issue of cybersecurity, but she also entered an area where she talked about our employees and working out of home. She talked about making sure that we respect privacy-related areas when working at home.

I'm wondering if the House administration has been looking at establishing some guidelines for us and our staff when it comes to working from home.

[Michel Patrice]

In general, we do provide communication and guidance documents and we also do some webinars with respect to working at home and adapting. We've also been looking at providing ergonomic equipment and so on, as well as allowing staff to use our equipment.

If it's relating to cybersecurity in terms of privacy and in terms of the surroundings, because I had that same discussion with Mr. Aubé, I'll ask Mr. Aubé to answer in relation to VPN and what it means in terms of direct access and in using personal equipment while being linked to our network.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As part of our mobile strategy at the House that we've been implementing over the last three years, we do provide best practices for security for people who work from home. They're basically founded on ISO standards 27001 and 27002, without getting into the technical details. There are specific controls and specific ways to use our devices that we put in place in order to interact with the House of Commons resources. This is the way we do it.

We implement these best practices. We also provide equipment that has these controls in place. We also provide, as Mr. Patrice said, some awareness, and we also provide some training to the employees who would like to work from home.

If ever there's a specific requirement, Madam Petitpas Taylor, we're more than willing to engage with every MP and every MP's staff members to communicate that and make them aware of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Aubé.

Next we have Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My first question is for you, Mr. Aubé. I'd like to know whether the House has spontaneously offered support to the parties for their caucus meetings, which require a higher level of security.

[Stéphan Aubé]

We have had discussions with the parties on a level of security for caucus meetings similar to the level of security associated with in-camera meetings.

Our priority is that people understand the sensitive nature of the information that will be discussed, how it will be discussed during the meeting and the nature of the discussions. If these three factors increase the risk surrounding the discussions, we recommend using tools such as Skype Enterprise. We have evaluated various tools for the needs of the House. For the specific needs currently being discussed, the only tool we evaluated was Skype Enterprise. This software is part of our physical infrastructure, it's not in the cloud, so we can control its use.

I'm not saying that the other tools aren't safe, but we haven't evaluated them for our specific needs yet. If you want to have critical discussions or exchange sensitive information during these meetings, we recommend that you use only the tools we suggest and nothing else.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

That's perfect, Mr. Aubé. Thank you.

I now have a quick question for you, Mr. Speaker. You mentioned a number of technical problems that occurred during the virtual sitting of Parliament. In addition, there was a practice run the day before, as well as committee meetings. Were you informed that there were problems during those various meetings or during that practice run?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

There weren't really any problems, no. Everything went pretty well. Little things will always happen, but nothing major has been reported, and everything continues to go well so far.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Madam Chair, do I have time to ask another question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much. That's it. You're very much right on time.

Next is Ms. Blaney, please, for two minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that, Madame Chair.

When I last asked a question, I was talking about the reality of being in a minority government and what this could look like in a majority government, and how to keep that connection. As a House officer, I know we meet once a week when we're in the House and go over what's going to be happening in the House for the upcoming week. I'm just wondering about continuing that level of collaboration in those kinds of structures.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That happens between the parties themselves and between the House leaders. It's actually quite refreshing to see the House leaders work together and come together with a certain amount of agreement. I hope you continue to do that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

One of the things you brought up in your report, Mr. Speaker, was that the 35-second limit on questions may need to be reviewed. Could you give us a bit of feedback on that?

Finally, if there's time, what are the most important of the Standing Orders that we need to modify to have a virtual Parliament?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'll answer the first part and then hand it over to the Clerk, who can talk about the Standing Orders specifically.

In committees of the whole and emergency debates, there are actually five-minute questions that allow an exchange between the person asking the question and the person answering the question. This allows for more in-depth questions to be asked and for more in-depth answers to be given. I think we get a lot better debate that way, as opposed to what we have now with 35-second questions and 35-second answers. This 35-second format results in more of a “gotcha” session on both sides, regardless of who's asking or who's answering.

This was brought into place in the late nineties, when we had five parties, and they were trying to give people more chances to ask questions. Extending the amount of time for the questions allows members to go in depth, and it gives us, I believe, a better performance on the floor. It's something that I'm asking this committee to look at, not only for virtual meetings but also for the floor of the House of Commons when question period takes place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

Maybe, Ms. Blaney, we can wrap up with that second part of your question, because I do think it's important for all the parties. Perhaps I can make it my question. I haven't asked any questions throughout any of the proceedings.

We'll move on with Ms. May for now. Maybe we can get a summary from our clerk as to what Standing Orders we should be specifically focusing on for our report.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Chair, how much time will I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You have two minutes, Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you very much.

To the Speaker, just parenthetically, because it's come up so often, it was interesting to hear that in the U.K., for security reasons their cabinet is meeting by Microsoft Teams, and we haven't talked about that very much yet, but their Parliament is basically meeting by Zoom.

Mr. Speaker, we've heard from Scotland, Wales and the U.K., and what struck me was that the current method of voting there is much freer than what our rules require, and this has nothing to do with the pandemic. I think our rules are the most archaic in the Commonwealth. They require standing at your desk and being there at the moment of voting until the vote is counted. There's electronic voting at your desk in Scotland and Wales, while British members of Parliament walk through outer lobbies to register a vote outside of the House.

I'm wondering if any of those methods of voting in other parliaments suggest to you a direction we might go, leaving aside the question of how we approve it in a pandemic.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

This is certainly something that the committee should look at, not only for virtual meetings but also for all the rules in the House. I would encourage the committee to explore the possibilities that are out there and how we can bring them back. It will require a longer time to ensure recommendations are well thought out, but the committee should certainly consider possible changes not only to virtual sittings but to electronic voting within the House. It would be a lot quicker and more efficient for all members to push a button. There would have to be some security and, as I say, a lot more thought has to go into it, but I would certainly encourage the committee to consider it.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

If I have any time left, I'd turn to the Clerk and ask for the specific Standing Orders that we would have to change to move to a virtual parliament. I'm asking Rachel's question again.

[Charles Robert]

It's a rather difficult question to answer in such a short and limited amount of time available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

It was going to be my question as well, so you have two minutes to answer.

[Charles Robert]

That's more than enough, I suppose.

I think, in fact, there are two aspects that we need to consider. One would be how you want the voting system to function. There would be a gamut of rules that might be changed in that respect.

The other one that was raised during the course of this meeting was the trigger mechanism that allows you to go to the virtual option. That could be done by having a rule in place that allows for a fixed time for debate to be triggered, perhaps, by a minister. You would allow for a certain amount of time to debate the issue, to determine the merits of such a step, and then have a vote that would take place at the end of that process.

That might be one consideration for you to bear in mind when you look at how a virtual sitting program might be implemented and carried out after this current pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Is there anything else? You have another minute.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

That is extraordinary. No, the Clerk has the other minute.