Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 4th, 2020

[Greg Phillips]

I think Madam Gagnon would also have some very important things to say about that. For us, the major problem is the cumulative impact of the injury. Continued minor injuries can build up over time, and that's a major concern of ours that will come into play with this, so it's hard for us to say how quickly people are going to become injured and unable to work.

Just to clarify the numbers, there are 70 interpreters from the Translation Bureau working in the official languages. Of those, 40 are unable to work right now, so there are 30 who are working.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Ms. Gagnon.

[Nicole Gagnon]

Mr. Phillips correctly pointed out that there are 70 interpreters who work for the Translation Bureau as employees. There are about 30 to 35 freelancers accredited by the Government of Canada, who can be called upon to come and work on the Hill. They regularly work on the Hill; they just haven't since COVID-19 and until the start-up of the virtual Parliament. They are ready. They are without work, basically, because everything else in the country has been cancelled, any other meetings, and so they are willing to come forward and help out their colleagues.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

In my quick time, I'll just mention the bidirectionality. I'm hoping that some of our work can provide some measures that help. For example, if we have hybrid meetings of some sort, maybe we should have a policy to say there would be one person who does the in-person interpretation, and have a set-up where there could be another who is doing the remote aspect, to avoid that shock aspect of going back and forth, as you mentioned. I'm very interested in working on that and making sure that we address those issues, not only from a social distancing perspective within the Hill, but from a health and safety perspective, as you raised.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Duncan.

Next up, we have Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It's great to have you folks on today. I really appreciate the time that you've taken to spend with us.

Mr. Phillips, I just want to go to you first. In the information that you will be tabling, I understand that there are 40 people who are off right now, but I think you said before that a lot of those could be attributed to child care or whatnot, as a result of what's going on.

When you provide the information to us in terms of how many people have been experiencing workplace incidents, can you also give us the before picture, so that we know what it was like prior to this?

[Greg Phillips]

I will have to rely on some of the information that the Translation Bureau would provide because some of our members don't submit incident reports directly to us, the union, they submit them to their employer. We don't necessarily get all those statistics from the employer. It would be something that we'd have to be in discussion with the Translation Bureau about.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Are you getting them all right now?

[Greg Phillips]

We get some. It's a very tight-knit community, and they do speak to one another, but my background is in statistics, and I like the pure numbers. I don't have the 100% pure numbers to stand behind. From our end, it's more anecdotal. The bureau itself would have the real numbers.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

We need those numbers to look at, if we can get them.

The other issue that I wanted to talk about was the issue of the headsets. I just want to understand: is the issue having a headset, or is the issue having a proper microphone that is this close to your face? What are we actually looking for here?

[Greg Phillips]

Clarity of speech.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Right now, I'm talking to you using my headset; and now I'm talking to you using a $250 microphone that's meant for podcasts. Is the clarity of speech different between the two of those?

[Greg Phillips]

You'd have to talk to the interpreters in the booth.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this. I don't like wearing headphones because I have tinnitus in my right ear, and I attribute it to a lot of wearing headphones, particularly when I was younger. My preference is to not wear headphones, and I'm wondering if there is an alternative. Is it possible to make sure that quality of sound gets through without necessarily forcing people to wear headphones?

If I understand, for you, the issue here is the quality of sound that you're receiving, not what I'm hearing through the headset. Is that correct?

[Greg Phillips]

I would say that's correct. It's the quality of the sound from the microphone. Not everybody has a microphone like the one you showed. This is an easy solution that a lot of people can have, and it's easy to standardize, but a proper microphone like the one you demonstrated would probably be sufficient. It's the hearing of our members, not how it gets to them. It's the sound quality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much, Mr. Phillips.

[Jim Thompson]

I would just like to add to check out our recommendation because it includes specifications as to the hertz that are delivered by your microphone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Mr. Richards for three minutes please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Let's explore the workplace injuries that you both referenced in your opening remarks, which have been talked about since. As I understood it, in the last few weeks there have been more workplace incidents or injuries than there were in the 66 weeks prior to that, if you go back to 2019, which would be like a 22-fold increase in workplace injuries. Is that correct? Could you elaborate a bit more on this and how it relates to the increased requirements?

[Nicole Gagnon]

Mr. Phillips has pointed out to you that basically the Translation Bureau could provide you with those statistics. It makes sense that there is a greater number of injuries at this time, because we're into virtual Parliament. Up until COVID-19, there was some remote interpretation being done, but it wasn't steady. It wasn't every day, day in and day out. As the interpreters are working remotely, day in and day out, it is normal that they would sustain more injuries. It's not acceptable, but it in part explains the phenomenon.

It also has to do with how the interpreters were testing the systems, and I can only insist yet again, when it comes to what's being raised about using the headphones and the quality of the mikes, that what is important is that we standardize what everyone who is participating is using to connect to the platform. Every time someone is left with his own device, which is not necessarily compatible, the interpreters either do not get the quality of sound they need to do the work or sustain injury because they're not.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Okay. Understood.

Can we maybe just talk a bit about right now, which is quite a modified situation for Parliament? There are virtual sittings for little portions of the day, a couple of days per week, and I don't know if it would be roughly a quarter of the committees of Parliament that are sitting.

If that were to be expanded on a more permanent basis—that's not what we're talking about here, but just because this is the conversation we're having—if all of the committees of Parliament were sitting and if Parliament were to sit virtually every day of the week and these kinds of things, if that decision were made, given what you've told us about the difficulties already being faced with the extra interpreters required and what that's leading to in terms of injuries, what would that look like for interpreters? Would that be a feasible situation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

We're over time now, Mr. Richards. Thank you, though. I wanted you to at least be able to finish your thought.

Next we have you, Mr. Finnigan. If you don't need the full three minutes, it would be appreciated, as everybody is waiting to switch on for the next panel.

Mr. Finnigan.

[Pat Finnigan, Liberal, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would also like to thank the interpreters for the vital work they do.

As a committee chair, I remember when interpreters were injured last year, or the year before. It happened on a few occasions at our committee. So it is nothing new.

I wonder if any members, like those here now, have been injured as well. If not, why does it only happen to interpreters?

Could Ms. Gagnon or Mr. Phillips explain that?

[Greg Phillips]

The reason the interpreters are experiencing the problems is that because of the nature of their work, they have to sit in a booth, they have to listen to you speak and they also have to speak, so they are speaking at the exact same time that you're speaking, and then there is the sound quality amongst all of that. Interpreters have to pay so much attention to what you are saying and translate the tone and also the message, which a member of Parliament would not have to do. When you're sitting there, you're not thinking about another person speaking and you're not translating it in your head and trying to translate the tone, the message and everything else that's involved.

It's an all-inclusive situation, and then maybe you go from your committee back to your office, while the interpreter goes to another meeting. It's an accumulation of all of that over a long period of time.

[Jim Thompson]

I would just add that when interpreters are straining to hear, if somebody is connecting by phone or a cellphone from the back of a car, they turn up the volume. In cases where there is feedback—that screech you hear, as you know, when you get too close to the microphone with your phone—the volume is up, the headsets are on and that goes straight into the brain of the person who is trying to interpret you.