Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 25th, 2020

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

To dig a bit more, it was not sufficient, but what did it look like?

[Susan Kulba]

Essentially there weren't a whole lot of individual consultations with members. The administration at the time was looking at the consultations that happened pre-2001. In 2001 established standards were approved at the board level, and those were the standards we were working with to get through the design of the West Block in the early years, and that then went up at a higher level for decision-making—not in the granularity, but through the Board of Internal Economy.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

If I understand correctly, the final decisions for this building rested with the Board of Internal Economy.

[Susan Kulba]

That's correct, but again not at a granular level. That was being delegated to the administration.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I believe it may have been Mr. Duncan who asked an earlier question that I want to ask, if I can piggyback on that. Are there any decisions that need to be made by a certain timeline that would be detrimental to the budget if they are not made?

We've indicated that we have a 10-year timeline to get this project completed. I'm assuming there have to be some decisions that you're going to need to have some input on fairly quickly, and I'm just wondering what that time frame looks like.

[Rob Wright]

First and foremost, layered decision-making can occur. If we have all the decisions at one time, that's optimal. But first and foremost, I would say that the size of the chamber and the size of the visitor welcome centre are the two most critical decisions. We're now doing the deconstruction work, the asbestos abatement, and that can proceed without those decisions. We have an approach on that. The structural work in the building would really be the next layer of work. Having agreement on the size of the visitor welcome centre so that we can continue that excavation work and whether or not we will retain the House of Commons chamber or enlarge it are the two most critical decisions that it would be ideal to have made this spring so that we can proceed with the design and construction in parallel, in a layered approach.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mr. Duncan.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you.

Hello again. I have a couple of questions to go through.

Everything is returning to Centre Block once Centre Block reopens, but is there any conversation or any options being presented about certain aspects staying in West Block? The reason I just throw this out there is that as I was sitting in the chamber of West Block, we were talking about enlarging Centre Block and the constraints that are there with the two floor lobbies. Just for context and as an example, I'm wondering if there's any conversation saying, look, if you keep the chamber where it is in West Block now, it could be expanded. Again, to me, that footprint in that back hallway and the lobbies could be more feasible than the constraints of Centre Block.

Is there any conversation on that, or is everything purely going back to Centre Block?

[Michel Patrice]

I will say that there's a conversation on leveraging the West Block facilities, in terms of the administration, for example, to maximize space for MPs at Centre Block. As for the one you're suggesting with regard to the chamber, I would suggest that's a discussion that the members—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Fair enough. I just wasn't sure if that was an option. I still struggle with our path to have these conversations or these ideas in that forum. But I'll get back to that.

In the redevelopment, block 2 concerns the relationship with the City of Ottawa. I'm wondering if in all of this you are in regular contact with the City of Ottawa, and I think right now the Sparks Street BIA, on the major redevelopment that's going on along there. I would just hate to see those conflict. Have you done presentations similar to this for the planning committee or the subcommittee on heritage at the City of Ottawa?

[Rob Wright]

Absolutely. We work hand in glove with the city, the NCC, the Sparks Street Mall Authority and the BIA. In fact, we worked in partnership with the City of Ottawa on the initial planning and consultation for the revitalization of Sparks Street. We gave a storefront for the consultation to occur and provided some funding to support that development. It is fully, fully integrated. They are quite supportive, I would say, of the direction in which we're proceeding.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I have a quick follow-up on that with regard to Wellington Street. Is there any conversation specifically with the City of Ottawa on the future of Wellington Street? We talk about Sparks for pedestrians, but I think one of the challenges is sometimes the precinct safety and security in terms of the future of Wellington Street, what it's used for, how it's used, and that type of thing.

[Rob Wright]

I would say there has been an ongoing conversation around Wellington for a long time. That's an ongoing conversation. I would say that the LRT and how transport works within the capital—

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Let's not talk about the LRT.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rob Wright]

The links between Gatineau and Ottawa have, to a certain extent, revitalized some of those conversations on how Wellington can be maximized in the future.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I appreciate that.

Going back to the Holyrood Inquiry, just as a sub-note to this, I read that the BBC had a very good relationship with the Scottish Parliament to document, through video, interviews and that type of thing, the work being done. I think about the historical perspective, or about Canadians being able to see the front lines that we got to see, which was very, very cool. I know there have been some tweets on that by members, and there was a lot of interest from the general public.

Is anything being done to consider opening it up—not public tours like we got, but video or any sort of relationship like that to document the work being done? I just think about the number of Canadians who watch HGTV, or whatever it may be. There might be an interest.

[Rob Wright]

I would say that this has been an ongoing conversation between ourselves and the parliamentary partners. It is a partnership. We're trying to look at what is the best approach for that, but I would agree that it's a good idea.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

This is the last comment or question that I have. Where do we go from here? We've had a lot of comments about governance and some of the concerns we have had over this. When we talk about BOIE and some of their approvals, I question, respectfully, what our role as PROC is if BOIE has some of those approvals. Are we here for questions? Are we here as part of that MP consultation stage? Is it our work to go out to members?

I just wonder what the next steps are for us, having got the information, knowing and seeing some of these challenges of working between the BOIE, the House, the Senate, PROC, cabinet, Treasury Board and all of these approvals and angles. I don't have an answer—that's more of a rhetorical one for ourselves as a committee. Perhaps we could hear any comment you may have on suggestions, improvements or next steps of what goes on.

[Michel Patrice]

The next step, I would suggest, is the board meeting on Thursday, in terms of continuing the discussion.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Mr. Brassard.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We focused a lot over the last week or so on the physical aspects of the building in the reconstruction process, but I want to talk about the brains within the building. I'm certainly not talking about members of Parliament, and I include myself in that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!