Evidence of meeting #23 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gatineau.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

France Bélisle  Mayor, City of Gatineau
Catherine McKenney  Councillor, City of Ottawa
Claude Royer  Spokesperson, Alexandra Bridge Coalition
David McRobie  Architect, As an Individual
Christine Leadman  Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
Robert Plamondon  Supporters of the Loop

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

The committee is meeting today to continue its work on the operational security of the parliamentary precinct along Wellington and Sparks streets. For the first half of the meeting, I would like to welcome the following witnesses. We have Mayor Bélisle with the City of Gatineau as well as Councillor McKenney with the City of Ottawa.

I will provide up to five minutes for opening comments for both of you to address committee.

I would just remind all colleagues and all guests that we are here in regard to a specific study, so if we can keep within that parameter, it would be greatly appreciated.

I'd like to welcome the Mayor of Gatineau.

Ms. Bélisle, you have the floor.

11:10 a.m.

France Bélisle Mayor, City of Gatineau

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning.

Chair, elected officials and members, I want to thank you for inviting me here today, as I fully appreciate the importance of this committee's study on expanding federal jurisdiction for the operational security of the parliamentary precinct.

I'm pleased to join you as mayor of Gatineau.

Gatineau is an entirely separate entity within the national capital region.

Through the National Capital Commission, or NCC, the federal government is the largest property owner in the capital. As such, it manages nearly 11% of the land on both sides of the river. In Gatineau, this includes several major green spaces, such as Jacques-Cartier Park, Moore Farm, a network of cycling paths and the 360‑km2 Gatineau Park, the iconic site in the Outaouais region.

However, Gatineau is much more than that. It is the francophone half of the capital, our capital. It is the workplace of thousands of public servants and home to tens of thousands of others, who cross the Ottawa River each day to serve Canadians.

The City of Gatineau is in favour of the proposal to expand the Parliamentary Precinct from a security standpoint. There is already good co‑operation between the various police services, which worked together to manage interprovincial traffic during the pandemic and, more recently, during the trucker protests. It is important to have a unified command centre in an emergency to ensure sound management of events that have an impact on police operations.

In Gatineau, Laurier Street is part of Confederation Boulevard. The central part of that boulevard forms a loop that connects downtown Ottawa and downtown Gatineau. This ceremonial route passes in front of Parliament, heritage sites and museums, including the Canadian Museum of History. As you surely know, that museum is the most visited museum in the country and is located on Laurier Street in Gatineau.

The NCC oversees the visual identity and street furniture layout on Laurier Boulevard. Management agreements with the City of Gatineau do not present any problems. However, if the Parliamentary Precinct is expanded, additional federal funding is expected to be granted for its redesign and those agreements are expected to be improved.

I would like to open up new horizons. However, the issue that the government is looking at is much broader than just security. Once the issue is decided, the expansion of the Parliamentary Precinct will promote decisions on the ground to foster smooth and consistent development in the capital. This decision will become a lever for the federal government to fully assume its leadership in relation to interprovincial transport. For Gatineau, one of the most important issues to date is sustainable and structuring transportation that will facilitate travel, including between both sides of the river.

The population of the Ottawa-Gatineau region has almost tripled since 1970, from 581,000 to 1.4 million residents. Even greater growth is anticipated. However, no interprovincial transportation capacity has been added to the capital region in the last 50 years. Our public transit system, particularly our tramway project, must ensure traffic on the Portage Bridge and likely on Confederation Boulevard, on both sides of the river. This important infrastructure project is supported by Gatineau residents and must move ahead. The public transit office created at the NCC will also study the planning of possible interprovincial links for the tramway between Gatineau and Ottawa.

The issue of governance is a priority in this discussion. I reiterate the importance that we place on the leadership expected from the federal government, particularly the NCC, to assume its role and be the main representative for the various authorities. I am pleased that the issue is being discussed in an integrated long-term plan concerning interprovincial links.

The NCC has even committed to consider, in a subsequent phase, the implementation of a transit loop on Confederation Boulevard on both sides of the river. I therefore see this file as being closely linked to the issue before you, the expansion of the Parliamentary Precinct.

We have the opportunity to work together to create a transit network in the capital, at a time when the planet requires that decision-makers make every effort to fight greenhouse gases and when we are also responsible for making the best possible use of taxpayer dollars.

This decision allows Canada's capital to join other capitals around the world in relation to security concerns and an integrated vision of active and public transit.

The approach adopted must be in the public interest. This proposal is a unique opportunity for Canada to put words into action.

Thank you for your attention.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you very much.

Again, welcome you to the committee.

Councillor McKenney, we will go to you for up to five minutes.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Catherine McKenney Councillor, City of Ottawa

Thank you, Chair, members, for inviting me to speak with you today.

As you may know, I am the city councillor for Somerset ward in the City of Ottawa, and I am currently serving my second term. Prior to being elected, I was the direct strategic adviser to the deputy city manager at the city, giving me perspective on the administration of city policy and operations.

I've actually also worked on Parliament Hill. I was an assistant to two of your former colleagues, the Honourable Ed Broadbent and Paul Dewar, both of whom represented the area where I now serve. That area, Somerset ward, extends from the Rideau Canal west to the light rail tracks that separate Little Italy and Chinatown from Hintonburg, and from the Ottawa River south to the Queensway. It is the heart of Ottawa and includes Parliament Hill and many federal buildings as well.

I’m guessing many of the restaurants and other businesses that many of you often patronize while in Ottawa serve those residents. These residents I represent are also your neighbours. They’re your shopkeepers, your servers, your store clerks and much more. During the recent occupation of our downtown, they suffered.

Let me take a minute to expand on that. I'm sure you may have seen the extreme disorder that occurred on Wellington Street, but unless you took a walk a few blocks further south, you may not have seen the rest. It was pure chaos. The compounded result of multiple daily acts of aggression in our downtown neighbourhoods made life unbearable for most residents of Centretown.

Many residents left their homes. Some families sent their children to stay with relatives. My teenage daughter was forced to stay with friends after I received direct threats to my safety that identified our home.

You may ask, where were our police? They were protecting Parliament Hill. The City of Ottawa simply does not have the capacity to protect federal properties during major national events and also patrol our neighbourhoods.

That’s why I wrote to the Prime Minister and the commissioner of the RCMP during the occupation, asking them to take over the parliamentary precinct. Doing so would have allowed the Ottawa Police Service to enforce laws throughout downtown.

We know there have been other times when the federal government has indicated an interest in taking over the full parliamentary precinct area, both for administration and policing. In 1989, many will remember, an assailant commandeered a bus and forced it to be driven onto Parliament Hill. That eight-hour standoff resulted in new security protocols for the precinct. Of course, more security was added after the 9/11 in 2001.

In 2012, the Auditor General of Canada published a report, received by the House of Commons, on parliamentary precinct security. It included several recommendations, including a unified security force to replace the RCMP, the House and Senate security, and the Ottawa Police Service, which were responsible for policing at the time. The Auditor General’s main concern was jurisdictional confusion, which we certainly saw during the recent occupation.

Of course, that was also a question raised after the 2014 murder of Corporal Nathan Cirillo. One of the issues was that, as you know, he was attacked on Elgin Street, but the shooter moved quickly to Parliament Hill. This created a serious communications issue among the various security forces responsible for your safety.

In February 2022, the City of Ottawa adopted a motion, which I believe you all have, that says that the City of Ottawa work with its partners in the Government of Canada and the Ottawa Police Service to permanently transfer security responsibility for the Parliamentary Precinct, including the identified section of Wellington Street, to federal security forces.

This is significant, as the City of Ottawa's hesitancy to relinquish responsibility for the parliamentary precinct was one of the reasons that no serious action has been taken.

I'd like to close by commenting also on the closure of Wellington Street. We're the capital of Canada, and we see many protests in front of Parliament Hill. We welcome protests. We see many visitors to the area, whom we also welcome. By closing the blocks between Elgin Street and Bank Street, we will be able to increase that public realm for all Canadians to walk, cycle, take photos and show their pride in their nation. Our downtown has ample capacity to absorb any vehicular traffic that has been routed away from this section of Wellington Street.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you so much.

I provided a lot of leniency and I thought you might get to the point, but we'll have plenty of time to exchange.

I want to thank you for your opening comments and for your presence here at committee.

We will have our first round of six minutes, starting with Mrs. Block, who will be followed by Mr. Naqvi.

We will now turn it over to Ms. Gaudreau and, finally, to Mr. Johns.

I want to point out that the motion that was referred to by Councillor McKenney was not shared with this committee. We do not have it in both official languages, so at this time I cannot share it. It is publicly available through a quick search, but I want to make sure that we're not suggesting that committee members have access to something that we have not yet officially been sent.

Mrs. Block, there are six minutes to you, through the chair. Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair

Through you, I would like to welcome our witnesses here this morning.

It's good to have you with us.

I am sure you are aware that the decision to embark on the expanded precinct security jurisdiction study was the result of a notice of motion that we received from one of our own members, calling on the committee to study the possibility of expanding federal jurisdiction for parliamentary security to include sections of Wellington Street and Sparks Street. Subsequently, we then had two members write to the committee, urging us to consider recommending that the federal security jurisdiction be expanded to include Gatineau—essentially, downtown Ottawa and Gatineau—those areas within or adjacent to the national capital region's Confederation Boulevard ceremonial route.

I want to direct my first question, through you, Madam Chair, to Mayor Bélisle.

I'm wondering if you could confirm whether the City of Gatineau or its police services requested the federal government to invoke the Emergencies Act during the “freedom convoy”.

11:20 a.m.

Mayor, City of Gatineau

France Bélisle

Thank you for your question, Ms. Block.

No, the City of Gatineau did not invoke any emergency measures. However, it provided considerable support to the RCMP, particularly in its response.

In Quebec, discussions are needed with Public Safety Canada and the Government of Quebec for emergency measures to be ordered. In that context, we managed what was happening in our jurisdiction and offered our assistance. The Gatineau police is used to having discussions with its partners. However, these are circumstances where, from a political standpoint, we have discussions with our government, the Government of Quebec, and we must explain that Gatineau is part of the capital and is therefore facing and experiencing what is happening in Ottawa.

With that in mind, we support what you are looking at. I think it would improve communication between security actors in our jurisdiction.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much.

Again, through you, Madam Chair, to Her Worship, your police chief told us earlier this month that during the “freedom convoy” protests, your police service was able to plan and act accordingly, based on existing lines of communication among police agencies. I just heard that you would share that perspective, from the answer that you gave me earlier.

I guess what I'm wondering is this: Do you believe that we need to create more jurisdictions here in the area that we are talking about?

11:25 a.m.

Mayor, City of Gatineau

France Bélisle

Thank you for your question.

Yes, in terms of security on Laurier Street, we believe that the expansion of that perimeter would facilitate communication. What the City of Gatineau is seeking is for the federal government to recognize that we're already partners in managing Laurier Street and that any additional expenditures should be addressed under a protocol. However, we are entirely open to the idea, and in our opinion, the importance of asking the question and moving ahead has been demonstrated by recent events.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much.

Madam Chair, through you, I would now like to direct a couple of my questions to Councillor McKenney.

I note, Councillor McKenney, that you are a potential mayoral candidate in the upcoming fall election and, having been a town councillor and mayor of a small community here in Saskatchewan, I know that we have different wards that we represent. I'm wondering if you are here today as a representative for city council or if you are here as a representative for your ward.

11:25 a.m.

Councillor, City of Ottawa

Catherine McKenney

Through you, Chair, I just want to make sure that I understand. I am here today as a representative for the ward, for Somerset ward, as a city councillor.

You are correct. I am registered as a mayoral candidate, but I continue to be the councillor for Somerset ward. I was in January and February and I continue to be. That is the perspective that I bring here today.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

To both Her Worship Mayor Bélisle and Councillor McKenney, where do each of you stand on the proposed routes for Gatineau's tramline into Ottawa?

I'll follow that up with another question, and then I'll turn it to both of you. If it were to run at grade on Wellington Street and the rest of the street was for pedestrians, do you think that this would help resolve many of the biggest potential security headaches in downtown Ottawa, not to mention potentially saving taxpayers up to $900 million?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

We'll go to Mayor Bélisle for a quick answer to be followed by Councillor McKenney, because we've passed time.

Go ahead, Madam Mayor.

11:25 a.m.

Mayor, City of Gatineau

France Bélisle

Thank you very much for the question. I like discussing the tramway.

Yes, the NCC has said that they are in favour of the tramway running on the surface of the Portage Bridge and on Wellington. We are working primarily in that direction.

I thank you for asking this question because, in terms of the decision you're considering for security reasons, I think we also need to consider it for managing transportation around Parliament. We feel the tramway is an excellent way to manage traffic volume and to ask the right questions about security, seeing how the tramway route can be influenced at this stage. We need the federal government for that, since the bridges we need to cross are under its authority, as is all traffic around Parliament.

That's where we are, Ms. Block, in terms of our tramway project.

11:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Ottawa

Catherine McKenney

Yes, I do support the tramway at grade running on Wellington and making that very important connection to Gatineau.

One of the motions that I moved on the Wellington closure specifically talked about closing the street to vehicular traffic, and it very specifically noted that we would still want it to maintain transit and, by transit, it's the tram that we had in mind.

Do I believe that it would solve security headaches? I think that any time you have more people in a space and you have a better public realm space, you just have a safer space. Certainly I don't believe that alone would preclude us from needing to expand the parliamentary precinct, however. I don't see how that would eliminate the need for that demarcation in responsibility between Ottawa police and federal police, in this case, the parliamentary precinct service, but I do very strongly support the tram on Wellington, yes.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Excellent. Thank you.

Mr. Naqvi.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Yasir Naqvi Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

I'll be directing my questions through you to Councillor McKenney.

Councillor McKenney and I have had the privilege of both serving the Somerset ward, which is part of the Ottawa Centre riding. It's always a great pleasure to work with them.

Councillor, let me just give you a minute to finish your thought. In your initial comments, you were talking about vehicular traffic if Wellington Street is closed permanently. Right now, it is closed between Bank Street and Elgin Street.

What do you think the impact is going to be in Centretown and in the downtown area as a result of that closure if it's made permanent?

11:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Ottawa

Catherine McKenney

Thank you, Mr. Naqvi.

Through you Chair, I often like to refer to these sorts of changes in streets as openings, rather than closures.

I know I said closure, but we're really opening it to people. Having Wellington Street open to people would provide unique opportunities for extensive programming in front of the Parliament Buildings. Just last week we received a request for a ball hockey tournament with temporary rinks on Wellington for a few days this summer. Having chairs and the space in the public realm is always going to benefit residents, people who work downtown such as yourselves, and visitors. It just makes for a much better space.

I'll just end that by saying that when we built our light rail system, we removed much of our transit on Albert and Slater, which are streets three and four blocks to the south of Wellington. With the City of Gatineau investing in its transit with LRT into the city, we can see a further reduction in buses running on Albert and Slater. That has opened up a tremendous amount of capacity for wider sidewalks, cycling lanes and the movement of cars from Wellington onto those two streets that run east and west right through the downtown.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Yasir Naqvi Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Chair, I'm assuming that Councillor McKenney supports the expansion of the parliamentary precinct to include Wellington Street and Sparks Street. I'd appreciate if they can confirm that.

In addition, if that takes place, can they speak about how it would mitigate, from a security and quality of life perspective, for citizens of Centretown and the many small businesses that are located there, if we were to have another major demonstration or occupation of the kind we saw most recently in January and February?

11:30 a.m.

Councillor, City of Ottawa

Catherine McKenney

Yes, thank you for that question.

Through you Chair, back to the member, I do strongly support the precinct moving onto Wellington and Sparks Street north.

Again, we saw in January and February that a local police force could not do both. It could not be present through a major conflict on Wellington. It wasn't on the Hill. It wasn't on your grounds. It was on Wellington Street.

The local police force could not be present there through this major event and still have the capacity to be in the abutting neighbourhoods. They do abut. The city of Ottawa is unique that way, and I think it's a good thing that our Parliament and residential neighbourhoods function together. At a time like this, it meant that police were not available to residents to be able to respond to safety concerns.

I believe that is what led to much of the chaos, aggressions and threats that we saw in our residential neighbourhoods through the occupation.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Yasir Naqvi Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

The councillor was talking about the impact of the occupation on the residents and businesses of the downtown core. It was chaotic and violent at times. That really impacted so many of our residents. Some of them are still recovering from that occupation.

Through you, Chair, to the councillor, did they support the federal government's decision to invoke the Emergencies Act as something they were advocating for?

11:35 a.m.

Councillor, City of Ottawa

Catherine McKenney

Through you, Chair, yes I did. I supported it when the City of Ottawa declared an emergency and also the province. By the time we arrived into the third week, it was clear that, without the much stronger measures that the Emergencies Act provided, as our police chief at the time put it, it was getting more and more difficult to see how this would end through policing. That was frightening. It was a frightening thing for people to hear, people who had lived through at that point weeks of threats to themselves, to their security. By that point, yes, I did believe that we needed the Emergencies Act.

I would say that had we had in place what we're looking at today, where the federal government responded to the area that could be part of the parliamentary precinct, including Wellington and south to Sparks Street north, it would have certainly mitigated much of the chaos, I believe, early on and perhaps then we would not have needed the Emergencies Act.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you so much for that exchange.

Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses for being with us today.

First, I'd like to congratulate you, Madam Mayor, for the mandate you've received. I must say that my secondary residence is in your city, so the loop and the problems Gatineau faces concern me.

Today, we want your observations on Gatineau's concerns, particularly on how to improve security, including in the Parliamentary Precinct.

I've heard several interesting elements, but before going into more detail, I'd like to know how you see a protocol of action, for example in relation to a command post. I didn't know that 11% of Gatineau was managed by the NCC. That's a large percentage.

Madam Mayor, given the repercussions of the occupation of Gatineau by the Farfadaas group, which I saw on a daily basis, do you fear other repercussions if another similar occupation were to occur, even if we find solutions to maximize and strengthen security on Wellington Street? How do you see things? Essentially, we're talking about a possible spread. I'd like your comments on that.

Then, my next question will be for Councillor McKenney.