Evidence of meeting #23 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gatineau.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much.
Monsieur Plamondon, as you said in your testimony, this is not new. Why has this not happened before? Why is it different now?
12:35 p.m.
Supporters of the Loop
That's a very good question. It is an old idea, to have a tram that connects the national capital region. I think one of the big challenges has been the fact that our national capital region comprises two cities, two provinces, the National Capital Commission and the federal government. We simply have not had an alignment of interests that have drawn people towards the idea, which is why we came together as a group of citizens, not thinking about the short term or a coming election or the resistance that might be out there to changing traffic patterns. We were thinking 25, 50 and 100 years ahead, and that's why in our coalition we had former mayors of Ottawa and Gatineau, business leaders and other community leaders, who have said that the time is now right for this.
The other imperative is that Gatineau is now coming forward with a light rail transit system, which will complement and integrate with Ottawa's light rail transit system, so now we can create harmony. The Alexandra Bridge is about to go through a reconstruction. If we're going to do that, let's think long term about how we create a better national capital region that all Canadians can take pride in and through which we can promote our national unity.
Then, of course, there is the security threat, which now has just become that much more significant and important.
I think it was a good idea 20 years ago, and it's an even better idea today.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Plamondon.
Madam Leadman, I have just a couple of questions. I believe in your testimony you indicated that you've been working in the BIA field for the past 30 years. Am I correct in understanding that?
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
That's correct.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Are you familiar with other BIAs such as the King Street business improvement area in Toronto?
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
I understand from some research that the BIA initially opposed removing parking and car traffic on King Street in favour of having a tramway. I also understand that six months after they had started that project, the BIA changed its mind and realized that the revenues had grown. Is that your understanding as well?
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
That's correct.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Why do you think the removal of car traffic led to an increase in sales for the businesses that were part of that BIA along King Street?
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
I don't have an answer to that.
I would assume that a lot has to do with the local supports that those areas provide. King Street West is surrounded by a large residential population and, of course, Toronto has a much better transit system. I lived in Toronto and used the transit system regularly. Ottawa's transit system is a little unpredictable and not as consistent, I would have to say. I've lived in Montreal as well and lived on the Metro there.
Everything else has to align in order for the business areas to survive, and they have to have the supports and population to support it. Ottawa is a lot more spread out. People tend to travel more by car, and that is the situation, unfortunately. Our—
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Don't be sorry. Thank you very much.
Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for seven minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I thank the witnesses for their comments, which have me dreaming.
In the first part of the meeting, we asked what we could do to help each other. The main goal is to make the Parliamentary Precinct secure and determine whether we can expand it. In the end, it becomes clear that it's very important to examine the issue more closely—since we're at it, as we say. There have been proposals in the past, and due to certain obligations, we have to resolve the issue of security in the Parliamentary Precinct. I get the impression that it was shown today that it could all be consistent.
My questions are very simple.
First, I'm somewhat saddened that there is not enough transparency, particularly around the repurposing of the bridge.
Mr. Royer, do you have any specific requests in this respect? Why do you think there's not enough transparency?
12:40 p.m.
Spokesperson, Alexandra Bridge Coalition
The coalition was able to meet with representatives from Public Works and Government Services Canada in early 2021. We reported flaws, particularly in relation to the analysis. However, it was then hard to see things moving in terms of the heritage analysis and the involvement of heritage engineers.
We believe that we can contribute and we would like to, not necessarily have the final word, but perhaps have a discussion with decision-makers at Public Works and Government Services Canada to achieve a good assessment and give the Alexandra Bridge a chance to remain an extraordinary emblem of Canadian engineering.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you.
First, I'd like to say that, when referring to a “loop”, in my opinion, it's not in the sense of a round trip. I think it would be a really good idea to give you this platform not only to answer questions, but also to share your opinion. We are wondering, among other things, how this opportunity to expand the Parliamentary Precinct could help us.
Mr. McRobie, maybe you could answer my question, given your extensive expertise. You have to assess all elements when making a proposal.
How would this be a positive thing in our study?
12:45 p.m.
Architect, As an Individual
Why would it be possible for you to pull together everything that is required in order...? This is why I wouldn't pretend to say that the solutions are there. As an architect, I enjoy visual things and I'm very pleased that you have a package that demonstrates some of the ideas we have. However, the basis of it is the notion that it's a place for people, and that is probably the most important. The rest is all hardware, essentially.
There are ways of being able to deal with all of the program requirements for access and security and everything else that's involved in this. However, as long at it's a place for people that expands Parliament Hill, that's the important thing. It also therefore supports Sparks Street as a result. In other words, the strength of Sparks Street, I think will rise as a commercial presence with this project basically fronting Wellington Street.
I make the point that space is very important, and the planners of long ago were generous on Parliament HIll. We have to be equally generous when we approach the new PP block two project and not confine it, not push it back at the edge of a street. It should contribute to this mall.
I'm sorry about the long-winded answer.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Perfect.
I'd like to say that the current space cannot remain the same if we want the national capital to be important for a long time in terms of tourism. That's one reason why we want to move ahead on this issue.
Mr. Plamondon, you said that there were several concerns from the outset—not necessarily concerns related to protests or occupations, but concerns about all kinds of incidents that could occur when there is a lot of vehicle traffic.
Our objective is for there to be just one decision-maker, if I can put it that way. That would avoid not knowing who is responsible for what. During jurisdictional squabbles, incidents occur before anyone can take action. The goal is to find a good solution and a way to adjust the proposal to make it a pedestrian street.
Could you tell us what that would mean in terms of security?
12:45 p.m.
Supporters of the Loop
First, how do we find solutions in the complexity of the jurisdictions? Over our history in the national capital we've done that. It used to be that, for example, the Airport Parkway was owned by the National Capital Commission and it was transferred to the City of Ottawa. What I see to create simplicity here is simply for the City of Ottawa to transfer ownership of Wellington Street and Sparks Street to the federal government. Then we do not have confusion around jurisdiction, planning or security. There's total and absolute clarity.
Then we have [Technical difficulty—Editor] with O'Connor, Lyon or even Elgin, a better opportunity to create a coordinated plan that draws people into the national capital. I think they would access it primarily through light rail. There's really no parking on the Sparks Street Mall. There's no parking on Wellington Street at present. Most of the parking is in the office towers and streets before you get into the parliamentary precinct.
I think we do create clarity and there's an opportunity to do that through this project.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Madam Chair, if I may, I'd like to ask another question of Ms. Leadman, since my questions have been brief.
Ms. Leadman, we all agree that it is in fact a good solution. What are we lacking at this time to do it?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
Yes, I am. I'm sorry. I didn't understand the question.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Ms. Leadman, this morning, everyone seems to agree to move toward unification.
What are we lacking to do that?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Bank Street Business Improvement Area
I'm sorry. I don't understand the question, because I don't speak French that well.