Evidence of meeting #11 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I will give a one-minute answer and then I will pass it to my friend Dr. Veale.
Liberal
As an Individual
Very briefly, I will point to Dr. Veale. He's proposing the creation of seats in the House of Commons that are dedicated to the overseas voters, precisely to eliminate and to account for the issues you've just mentioned of attachment, geographical representation, and then engagement or involvement in those local or even hyperlocal issues.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
We're well over time.
Thank you so much.
Madam Normandin, you have three and a half minutes, please.
Bloc
Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
My questions are for Dr. Veale, but I would appreciate it if Mr. Scuka could add to the answers afterwards.
Mr. Veale, you discussed the possibility of having a representative model based on the model used in France for citizens living abroad. I know that, in France, it's often grouped by region. For example, French people living in the greater Asia-Pacific region have a representative.
I'd like you to tell us about a specific aspect of the model that you would tend to recommend.
If four million Canadian citizens live abroad and if the ridings were to be the same size as the ones we have here, about 90,000 voters per riding, that would mean there would be 45 more ridings. The participation rate of Canadians living abroad is only 1%, which is a far cry from what's happening here. That would mean that an electoral candidate could win a riding with only a handful of votes.
I would like you to tell us about the distribution of ridings for citizens who live outside the country. Would it be distributed according to the major geographic regions? Would the number of voters there be much higher than 90,000? What did you have in mind?
Director, Grits Abroad
Thank you, first, for the question. It's a very practical question and an important one.
I would initially look at geography over population, although they both have to be factored in and a balance has to be struck.
For example, in the city where I am right now in Hong Kong, as I mentioned, there are almost 400,000 Canadians living here. If ridings were based purely on population relative to other regions in the world, there might be a disproportionate number of seats coming from here, and that would create advantages and disadvantages, depending on a person's perspective.
I think, initially at least, that would be better looked at if that were not the case—if it were divided up geographically, not necessarily with an equal number of population per riding but through an approach established collaboratively through various sets of stakeholders—committees like this one, for example, or one like it—so that there is geographic representation.
The idea of Canadians abroad conjures ideas that we're talking about the entire planet, and there needs to be representation within a range of populations across a relatively equal number of regions across the planet.
As an Individual
I would simply say that I fully endorse that at first look. Geography is probably the right way to go. Other countries, such as France, have solved it. My cousin in Toronto is married to a dual national who is a French Canadian citizen. He and his daughters in downtown Toronto go to the French consulate every time there's an election and vote. If France can solve the problem, so can we.
Conservative
Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the two witnesses for being here today.
I have to admit that I did a little Google search about France myself, because this is not what I thought we would be talking about today—the potential for MPs to be representing Canadians living abroad.
I understand that France has 11 MPs, or whatever the equivalent title is, and they're elected based on regions around the globe. I'm fascinated by what exactly you envision this looking like in the Canadian context.
You've mentioned 400,000 Canadians living in Hong Kong. Do you have a number of foreign MPs that you would suggest if the government were to undertake that work, and how would you divide them around the globe? I'm just really curious to know exactly how many there would be and where you think these folks should be representing.
Director, Grits Abroad
That's another great practical question. I think initially there would have to be a reliable census of Canadians taken abroad, with different models looked at. In terms of the French approach, without knowing off the top of my head how many seats they have in the equivalent of their parliament, I think there needs to be some consideration of what kind of percentage any additional seats would add to the House of Commons in Ottawa.
As I mentioned, the number of Canadians abroad would be equivalent to the fifth-largest province in Canada. I'm not suggesting that we have the number of seats to represent that in proportion. I'm not suggesting that at all. But as a fair step, we should have some representation. We have none. Nobody solicits our votes. Decisions are made for us and about us, impacting us and impacting our children—impacting my children. We need to have some voices at the table, at tables like the one you're sitting at. We just don't have that.
We don't need to have an overly ambitious number of seats to represent overseas constituencies. I just think a minimally fair number would be appropriate.
Conservative
Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Sure.
Mr. Scuka, do you have any comment on that as well?
As an Individual
I would fully endorse what Dr. Veale has said. I would add that the 400,000 in Hong Kong make up probably one of the biggest concentrations of Canadians in one geographical region. Yes, that group of Canadians might have two or three seats assigned to them. I don't know what Elections Canada does on the average number of voters per constituency in geographical Canada today.
Going around the world, including western Europe and Africa, you have a huge number of Canadians working in aid in Africa and Southeast Asia. You could go around and probably come up with groupings that would somehow equate, as Dr. Veale said, to a fair coherency with what the population per riding is in Canada. There would be a dozen or 14 new seats in the House of Commons. This is not a bad thing at all.
Conservative
Grant Jackson Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I understand that the makeup of the House of Commons is outlined within the Constitution itself. Do you think this would require a constitutional amendment?
Director, Grits Abroad
I don't think it necessarily would. Of course, it has to be considered. You've raised the question. It has to be considered. My reading is that it isn't a certainty.
Conservative
As an Individual
I have no idea, so I can't comment, but you've raised the important point that voting for overseas Canadians is tightly tied to democracy itself in Canada. It is not something to be dismissed. It is something that relates to all the public and national debate that there has been in the past few years on first past the post versus other methods. It relates to all of it. It is simple on the surface but suddenly very complex underneath.
But no, I'm sorry, I don't know how that would affect it. I do know that to change how Elections Canada would receive votes, in terms of a mechanical change, would require a legislative change for sure. As for a constitutional change for the number of seats in the House, I'm not sure.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
Thank you so much, Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Louis, you have five minutes, please.
November 6th, 2025 / 11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you to both witnesses.
I think we're hearing today that voting is how Canadians' voices are heard and every vote deserves to be counted. Voters deserve a fair and accessible opportunity to participate in our democracy. We're seeing that this is true for Canadians living abroad. We have people who are serving our country, studying, working or maybe even caring for family overseas. As we're seeing today, they still have strong connections to Canada and I believe this is an important discussion about their ability to vote and the accessibility of voting.
We want to make sure that voting is secure, reliable and inclusive. That is part of the logistics and it's a matter of democratic integrity.
I appreciate the witnesses, Dr. Veale and Mr. Scuka, being here from different parts of the world. We're having the discussion between Ottawa, Hong Kong and Germany right now. I appreciate your time and advocacy.
Just to recap those numbers, you're saying that five million Canadians are living outside of Canada, about 100,000 kits were applied for and then about half of those were returned. That's about a 1.7% voter participation rate.
I appreciate us talking about those barriers. To go from five million down to 100,000 kits applied for, half returned and that low participation rate....
I was looking at a way to start this, so I'll start with Dr. Veale.
I know you've been encouraging early registration. You're saying not to wait until an election is called.
Are there any improvements that can be made when Canadians leave Canada, so they can ensure they're registered to vote even before an election is called?
Director, Grits Abroad
That's a great question.
As part of the process of registering as a non-resident, there could very easily be an aspect on the questionnaire or the survey that's issued to give Canadians moving abroad the opportunity to provide Elections Canada with any and all information that would help increase participation rates at future elections. I think that's a very small and easy technical solution. It should contribute to increased voter participation.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I appreciate that. That's what I'm looking for—these small, technical solutions that can just start building the percentages.
Would it help then, if someone were registered, if the embassy or Elections Canada could keep in touch with that person as an election's coming or on an ongoing basis, so people know they are still on the registration list?
Director, Grits Abroad
Yes, absolutely. That's another great question.
I don't see why there couldn't be improved technical coordination, let's say between the Canada Revenue Agency learning that I'm a non-resident for taxation purposes and Elections Canada. This coordination between agencies, where one is learning that I'm moving abroad.... That information is shared across agencies. That makes it easier to be automatically contacted when an election is called.
Again, that's just technical coordination. It's a small but important step forward.
Liberal
Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
That's what I'm looking for.
Mr. Scuka, you mentioned that you had to physically mail a piece of paper to get a piece of paper from Canada. Can you see how that could be tightened up?
You said it's possible that submitting information and then getting it back digitally could save some time as well.
As an Individual
Sure, absolutely. I have an account with the Royal Bank. I can log in right now, and I can move money, pay bills and borrow money. I have an account with Service Canada. I can log in right now to see what my CPP estimate is. I have an account with Revenue Canada.
Why can I not have an account with Elections Canada where I can log in, make sure my information is up to date and that there's a green check mark so I know I'm on the international voters list? When the next election is called, I'll get an email or something will pop up, and I will get sent that ballot electronically, which I will print on my printer right over there, name the candidate of my choice and mail—we've now devolved to the moving dead trees aspect—that back plenty in advance.
Elections Canada could do a lot, I think, within the current legislative framework or maybe with only minor legislative changes.
Furthermore, I would really want to see Elections Canada informing all candidates in all constituencies of the number of voters who are living overseas and how to contact them electronically. That is something Elections Canada does now. Many people in this room have been candidates, and you know better than I do. You get that list of voters, your campaign gets that list of voters, and you are enabled by law to contact them because you are candidating yourself and sharing your vision, your messaging and your policies. That absolutely should be done for overseas voters as well.
Again, as I said earlier, we'll kick-start this probably lengthy virtuous circle of getting more and more Canadians contacted by candidates, getting more and more to engage, getting candidates to pay more and more attention to votes that could sway the election in their constituency, and we get a virtuous cycle.
There are some concrete things that Elections Canada could do right now. The technical experts will know whether that requires regulatory change or legislative change.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Chris Bittle
Thank you so much.
That ends our session.
I'd like to thank both of our witnesses for being here.
I will suspend the meeting for us to go in camera for the next portion of our meeting.
[Proceedings continue in camera]