Evidence of meeting #73 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy Development, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
She can look those up, and—
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Sure. That's all the time we have for this round, but finish the question. We'll move on to Mr. Brown after you guys have given us the answer. We'll give you a chance to look up the source.
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy Development, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
One thing I'll say while she's getting the specific numbers is that it's very difficult. The data are very incomplete in that regard. We know a lot about kids who are in regulated child care; we don't know a lot about those kids who are in unregulated and informal child care arrangements, and we don't know why those choices have been made. It is a research area that needs to be filled in.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
I do have percentage figures: 45.9% use care in someone else's home, 27.8% use a day care centre, 21.6% use care in the child's home, and 4.7% use another form of child care. That's our information.
3:55 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
This is non-parental care, so it does not include children who are being looked after by their own parents.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Can I get her to repeat those figures, if that's possible?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Okay. The numbers are that 45.9% use care in someone else's home, 27.8% use a day care centre, 21.6% use care in the child's home, and 4.7% use another form of child care. I should add that these are 2002-03 numbers, and these are non-parental arrangements.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
I have now Mr. Brown, Ms. Chow, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Our colleague Mr. Savage mentioned a few meetings ago that the Quebec system was where everyone wanted to go. I'm sure the Bloc would agree with that, but some provinces are very proud of what they're doing and proud of the progress they're making.
Did the Quebec system grow to what it is today through legislation telling them what to do? Was there any process whereby Ottawa told Quebec the way it would be constructed, similar to what we're seeing here today?
4 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
No, there was no legislation. There's never been any federal legislation on child care, if that's the answer to your question.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
It is. That's interesting.
I have another quick question, which is on funding. We've heard from some groups anticipating that this would bring about new funding. Ms. Savoie, the sponsor of the bill, said there'd be no new costs. Obviously she recognized the significant investment we're making already in child care.
Is it correct that there are no costs involved in this bill?
4 p.m.
Director General, Social Policy Development, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Our interpretation of the bill would be that there are implications, at least at a minor level, with respect to establishing the proposed advisory committee and what not, and then it does speak to government funds that are flowed to the provinces. Indeed, it would be up to the federal government to make the choice as to what funds it flows and how much it flows.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
We're going to move to Ms. Chow, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich. I'm going to cut off the questioning after that. We're on a timeframe to move forward to clause-by-clause consideration.
The last few questioners I have are Ms. Chow, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich.
4 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
In 2004 five provinces reported out, yet in 2005 they all received funding. In 2005 only one province reported out, yet in 2006 they all received their funding. What specific mechanism or structure do you have in place to make sure the provinces and territories report, as is required in the multilateral framework agreement? They're obviously not doing it. If only one province reported out in 2005, how would you know that the rest of them actually created child care spaces?
4 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
I can speak to that.
When I talked about the spaces in 2006, that was based on the announcements that had been made, not on the reports on space creation. That was basically them telling us what they were going to do with the money.
The agreements—
4 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
It's what they are going to do next year or in the next 10 years, not necessarily what they have done.
4 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
It's what they have done up to 2006.
4 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
Okay, but my question was, what have they done because they got the money? Isn't that right?
4 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Yes, but the money goes through the CST, and that is an unconditional transfer. The agreements that they sign are not related to any withholding of funding, so that was never their premise. The idea of withholding funding from provinces was never part of a federal policy objective for these agreements.
I should just add that the premise of our agreements is that governments are responsible to their citizens; they're not responsible to other governments. And that's been the policy direction in the intergovernmental environment since the late 1990s.
4 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
So what accountability or mechanism is in place to make sure they do report out, or that they are in fact spending the money on child care?
4 p.m.
Director, Child and Youth Policy Division, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
As I said, I think the reporting regimes and reporting commitments are in the agreements. I know they're late. Our reports are late. We're still committed to reporting, and in my conversations with provinces, I do believe they are also committed to doing the reports.
The idea is that it's also up to third parties to monitor their governments to ensure that they do what they say they're going to do. The idea is that the provincial governments are not subordinate to the federal government, but they are mature systems of government, and that's the relationship those agreements are based on.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much.
We're going to finish off with Mr. Lake and Ms. Yelich.
