The point of order is this. That amendment as I have it was already put forward, and we can't be discussing another one, because that one was on the table.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Mr. Komarnicki, I'm sorry. I think we're not understanding each other. We are not discussing Mr. Lessard's motion in any shape or form, including any amendments to it. That's the first thing.

The second point I want to make is that the clerk tells me--and I will repeat again--that the records show that the motion that you proposed had not been accepted and that you must reintroduce it. The debate was ongoing definitely, but there was no....

I'm going to ask for a show of hands. I will not entertain any more questions.

Mr. Lessard.

12:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

I entirely agree with your position, Madam Chair. I find it logical. We can't decide on the time we're going to devote to a subject when we haven't even decided whether we are going to address it. First we have to decide whether we accept the motion and then determine the time we are going to devote to it.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Thank you, Mr. Lessard.

I would like to ask the members of this committee now to stop the discussion around Mr. Lessard's motion so that we can take it up and give it enough time--because I can see there are several points to be discussed, and I'll let the chair know--for next Thursday's meeting.

So I'd like to ask for a show of hands so that we can stop this discussion on Mr. Lessard's request. He is the proposer of this motion. Could I have a show of hands on behalf of the people who wish to stop this discussion as asked for by Mr. Lessard himself?

(Motion negatived)

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Mr. Vellacott, you have the right to speak.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Maurice Vellacott Conservative Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK

I have a question, Madam Chair. If I understand from the clerk, then, do we have Mr. Komarnicki's amendment that he proposed? It's agreed then, I guess, if there's no indication of a vote at the end, but is that not on the table then?

I mean, we can introduce it, whatever, but I thought it was already proffered to the committee.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

The answer is the same that I've given several times now, Mr. Vellacott. Mr. Komarnicki must reintroduce his amendments. He can do so now if he wishes to.

Mr. Komarnicki.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

We add the words after “examine” in the third line: “at the conclusion of the poverty study and for one meeting”.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

This is Mr. Komarnicki's amendment to Mr. Lessard's motion. I'll read it again: On the third line in English, “persons with disabilities examine at the conclusion of the poverty study and for one meeting the operation and financial support”, etc.

This is Mr. Komarnicki's amendment.

Mr. Martin wishes to speak on this, and then Mr. Lessard.

Mr. Martin.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I just want Mr. Komarnicki to understand that I understand what's going on. Frankly, I have to say I'm disappointed.

We have a motion brought forward in all sincerity by Mr. Lessard that is obviously very important to a very at-risk and often marginalized group of citizens in our society today, and a very serious question that he wants addressed, not only for his own constituents but certainly for mine and for all our constituents. To relegate it to a time further on, when we've done the poverty study, and to only have one day on it is, to me, to be dismissive of it.

This brings me to the major point I want to make: that is, as a committee, we really do need to somehow find a way to deal with issues of the disability community. We have a responsibility. It's in the committee name itself that we deal with people with disabilities here, but we never do. We don't ever get to it because, as is happening today, we're allowing the government, in this instance, to push it off to a later date, for one day.

That should be totally unacceptable to anybody around this table if they have any concern or respect for or desire to help those who are disabled in this country to participate in the communities they live in and to participate in the economy. I find it very disappointing and disturbing that this is what we're doing.

I've suggested this on a number of occasions here as we've dealt with this issue and other issues, and you will remember this, Chair, because you were chair back in 2004-05 when we struck a subcommittee of this committee to look at issues of disability. They then were able to get their teeth into some pretty major and important initiatives and brought back a report to the larger committee to be discussed by us and to be forwarded to government.

I would suggest that one way of dealing with Mr. Lessard's motion, and also other issues of disability because there's a lot.... This is just one piece that I think needs to be addressed. For example, some of the enabling accessibility funds come to an end in May and won't be available any more to groups out there to use to fix up their places so that disabled people can participate. We have other issues. This is only one issue that is of concern to the disability community out there across this country.

We need to get serious about it, we need to deal with it, and we need to deal with it in a timely fashion. I suggest that one way to do so, if the committee is interested, is to strike a subcommittee so that it would be the full focus and whole focus of that committee to actually get it done.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

I have to tell you, Mr. Martin, that I did think of that. We've discussed this before. From what I understand, the chances of our being able to strike a subcommittee with the right human resources are very slim because the human resources are not really available at this time. That is a big problem we have. I just wanted to bring that up.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

You're saying that because we don't have the resources we can't study issues that concern people with disabilities. Is that what you're saying?

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

No. I'm saying that this may be a big problem if we decide as a group to strike a subcommittee to study disabilities. That's what I'm saying.

However, I don't want to go further on this. Listen, we're not going to solve this problem today. We know that. There are about four minutes left in this meeting. I would strongly suggest that.... Mr. Komarnicki's amendment is on the table, as we say. It's now accepted as an amendment--not accepted, excuse me. It's been tabled.

I would strongly suggest--and once again I need your advice on this--that we leave it as is. I know I've given Mr. Martin some extra time, but we can come back to this on Thursday morning and try to give it a big chunk of time. I'll speak to the chair on this, so that I can give everybody else a chance to voice their opinions, both on Mr. Komarnicki's amendment and obviously on the motion itself.

Mr. Vellacott, do you absolutely want to say something now on this?

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Maurice Vellacott Conservative Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK

Is it my turn in the speaking rotation?

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

I've just made a suggestion--

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Maurice Vellacott Conservative Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK

I know, but we've already had a vote on that, with respect, Madam Chair. We've already--

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

No. We've not had a vote. I'm asking now that Mr. Komarnicki has tabled his amendment.... This is a different thing altogether. He has tabled his amendment. The amendment has been duly tabled.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Maurice Vellacott Conservative Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK

I understand, but I think you'd get the same result. I'm just asking if it's my turn in the rotation. Then I would--

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

No, it's not your turn.

Excuse me. It's Mr. Lessard's.

Mr. Lessard, go ahead, please.

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thought we were in a cooperative dynamic, when Mr. Komarnicki suggested an amendment to my motion, which we did, moreover. I thought there was a genuine concern to examine this matter.

Madam Chair, my remarks will perhaps be of no use, but, with your permission, I'm going to put a single question to Mr. Komarnicki. If he answers in the affirmative, we can stop the debate. It must be borne in mind that Mr. Allison, when he was chair, said that he would accept Mr. Komarnicki's amendment after disposing of my motion, since we first have to decide whether or not we are going to study it. So we would decide afterwards on the time we would devote to it.

Do Mr. Komarnicki and his colleagues agree to resume the debate, including on his motion, on Thursday? If he does, there's no problem. Otherwise, I'm going to make my remarks.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Raymonde Folco

Mr. Komarnicki, would you like to answer that?

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

The answer is no, and I ask that the matter be put to a vote.