Human Resources Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Komarnicki, you have three minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

A number of witnesses have testified that for adoptive parents and children, there's grief, trauma, and loss of culture and identity. I was struck by the fact that some children were adopted from the hospital, so to speak, some at a later age, some within the country, and some internationally. It seems that more supports were required for some than for others, just because of the nature of the circumstances.

They also mentioned that there were children waiting to be adopted and parents who wanted to adopt, but the two groups never met. I was struck by the fact that we don't have a way of connecting the many people. I understand there are 30,000 children who could be adopted but aren't, and people who are going internationally to adopt--so that's not happening.

You said that aboriginal children were overrepresented. Do we have a system of tracking the aboriginal foster and adoptive parents who are available to adopt, with respect to first nations custom adoptions, if you want to call them that? Do we have some means of identifying who they are so we can match the two, as a start? They obviously need supports if you can't, but down to the basics, do we have that kind of information available from province to province?

[Cindy Blackstock]

The short answer is no. There are individual communities that do a good job of tracking that.

I think it's really important to highlight Yellowhead Tribal Services again. When the mainstream were doing adoptions they said there weren't any first nations parents available. But when Yellowhead Tribal Services took over and provided the type of nurturing, support, and home studies that didn't compromise quality, they found there were a lot of family community members who were willing to step forward. That's why there have been so many successful adoptions.

So it's not only tracking; it's nurturing conditions that welcome people, where they see a role for themselves in supporting children in an adoption place, especially given the stigma, quite frankly, of the “sixties scoop”. So we need to provide an alternative that people feel good about.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I appreciate that.

Back to the tracking, how can you possibly get the right answers about who's out there? Secondly—and I put it to both of you—if you had that, what's the proportion of children available for adoption compared to the available parents or custom-type adoption situations?

[Cindy Blackstock]

If we provide proper supports, we can ensure that just about every child is placed within an aboriginal home. If we don't provide proper supports, I don't know what those proportions would be.

How do we track it? We create a national database on first nations children's issues. I can't even tell you exactly how many first nations children are in child welfare care in this country. We could easily create a national database that tracks children and families who are available, as you're suggesting, and make sure that we're maximizing opportunities to be able to provide these kids with good quality care. Canada has not done that up to this point. There are examples of it in the United States that show how it can be done through different database systems.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much. You're certainly confirming what we're hearing across the board--that for aboriginals and non-aboriginals there really is no nationwide information available.

We'll go to Madame Beaudin for three minutes, please.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today, all of you.

It is a real pleasure to hear from you and to see how well you know the issues.

First of all, I have a question to improve my understanding of the subject.

You talked, among other things, about the factors that lead to the need for first nations children to be adopted. For example, it can be poor housing, alcohol abuse and neglect.

Am I right in thinking that if we take action to remedy these factors, we will reduce the number of first nations children in need of adoption?

[Cindy Blackstock]

All the research suggests that would be the case. We wouldn't see a turnaround in the shorter term, but over the longer term we would expect to see, in a healthy and functioning child welfare system, the number of aboriginal children in care reflect the percentage of children in the population.

For example, in Alberta, 9% of the children are aboriginal, so we should see 9% of the child welfare population being aboriginal. At this point, as we sit here, 64% of the children in foster care are aboriginal in that province, and that's echoed in other regions of the country.

All the research--the best evidence--suggests that if we deal with those factors, we'll be able to provide optimal conditions for children's safety.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I believe it is best to intervene while the children are at the youngest possible age. You do not need to convince me that this is a community where children can flourish. It helps when everybody in the community feels a responsibility towards its children.

However, I also understand that you have developed a best practice, a program that has proven its worth. I imagine this program, in partnership with friendship centres and with all winning conditions met, could assist in helping those children. This program has been subsidized and constitutes a best practice. If it were implemented more widely, this would help a way to help first nations children.

[Cindy Blackstock]

Yes, I absolutely think it can be. It's not just Yellowhead Tribal Services. Mi'kmaq Family and Children's Services in Nova Scotia has another exemplary program. We're seeing that when first nations have control over their adoption services, the outcomes for children are better. That is echoed in a lot of the research coming out of Harvard University, the University of British Columbia, and the University of Victoria. Give communities an opportunity and they will take care of their kids.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Dr. Wong, you have questions.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you very much for coming.

I'm interested especially in the international adoption process. As we all understand, it has something to do with immigration as well. It's not as simple as the Canadian one.

Are you suggesting the linguistic and cultural heritage of the aboriginal children be kept in the family, that these children should be adopted by Chinese of aboriginal heritage, or are you saying that...? I just want you to clarify that point as to how that could be made possible.

[Cindy Blackstock]

I think it's important for the child to know who he or she is. This is their heritage. It's where they come from. In any cultural group, as you know, Madam Member, there is great diversity, and that's the richness of the people of that country. If this child is an indigenous child from anywhere else in the world, they have a right to know that. When it comes to placement, at least that can be considered a factor in the adoptive home. The adoptive families then have more information to be able to ensure the cultural heritage of that child.

What we know from experts such as Dr. Jeannine Carrière is that a key to success for adoption in Canada is that these children know where they came from and have opportunities to connect. These are aboriginal people adopted either to non-aboriginal or aboriginal homes. In an international environment, that may be a bit more challenging, but it is still their right to know who they are.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Are you suggesting that parents who would like to adopt these children be required by law or be encouraged to do it? I want to know your opinion on that.

[Cindy Blackstock]

The international law standards in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples say children have a right to their indigenous culture. I think it's the obligation of adoptive parents as well as countries to ensure children know who they are, and through that knowledge, they are provided with an opportunity to reach out to members of their group and understand who they are on a better level.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

You're not suggesting that aboriginal children should be adopted by an aboriginal parent, that aboriginal children adopted from overseas be adopted only by people with an aboriginal background?

[Cindy Blackstock]

I'm not saying that's exclusive, but I'm thinking isn't it a better idea if you know as much about the child as possible in order to find the best adoptive family? If you know the child is indigenous, and you have two families--one who's indigenous from that cultural group here, or roughly the same cultural group as the child, and one who's not--doesn't it make sense to at least consider that as a factor? I'm not saying exclude other families for placement, but I'm saying more information is always better for the child and for the adoptive parent, and certainly for the birth parents as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

Madam Minna, you had a question.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Yes, very quickly, to Ms. Blackstock.

I was particularly interested earlier when you talked about the organization in Manitoba, Yellowhead. I was particularly interested when you mentioned all ages. One of the things we've discussed here...we had a presentation that older children are hard to place, and there's a very large number in the country. After a certain age, they call it “age out” and they don't.... But you said of all age groups that this was a success.

Could you explain to me how that works out for older children? That's one of the areas we've been discussing, and it seems to have been a problem elsewhere.

[Cindy Blackstock]

The real key for them is that they provide that holistic support. It's really about a child being adopted by a whole community.

I went to one of the adoption ceremonies, Madam Member. There were approximately six children there. Only one was a baby. The rest were between the ages of about six and 16, and some of them had special needs.

The birth family, the extended birth family, the child, the adoptive family, and the extended adoptive family all had supportive services before the adoption. So it's as if everybody is umbrellaed and supported in this whole process.

The adoption ceremony itself happens in front of all community members. This isn't a secret. It's a celebration. The child is honoured for making it possible for the adults to have a growing, extended family. It's kind of like two families marrying each other. And the child is honoured for making that possible. The child is bringing greater supports to the adults in the community. That's the wonderful thing about this model. And I think that's why it's been so successful.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you.

That's a very nice picture you painted. We've heard some testimony from some young children, actually, about sometimes almost being bullied or shamed because of adoption. So it's really nice to hear about honouring the children and honouring the process. Thank you for that.

I want to thank you both again for being here.

I'm going to suspend for about three minutes so that we can bring in our next witnesses. Thanks again.

We would like to resume our meeting. We have only 45 minutes, because the committee does have business. I would ask the witnesses and the committee members to please take their places, and we will begin.

We're pleased to have some witnesses with us today who are going to share some of their personal experiences in adopting aboriginal children. We have with us again Laura Eggertson. Ms. Eggertson was here before. She's here today in her role with the Adoption Council of Canada but also to share with us her personal experience adopting children.

We're very glad to have you.

We also have Joy and Dan Loney and Jennifer Lewis.

Again, witnesses, please keep an eye on me for time. We really are tight on time. I hate to cut you off, but we all abide by certain rules. I'd like you to keep to between five and seven minutes. I'll let you know when you have about two minutes left. Then you'll know that you really need to wrap it up.

Laura, would you please begin with your story? Thank you.

[Laura Eggertson, Board Member, Adoption Council of Canada]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, for inviting me back.

I'm going to speak to my experience of adopting as a non-aboriginal or mainstream parent of two aboriginal children.

First of all, I want to say that I'm a proud mother of two young Ojibway women. I adopted my first daughter, Miranda, when she was eight years old. At the time she was in non-aboriginal foster care in Kenora. I saw her picture on Canada's Waiting Children, which is the national photo listing service that the Adoption Council of Canada runs. She was the first person adopted as a result of that list, although I didn't know it at the time.

I'm adopted myself, so I always envisioned adoption as a way to build a family. As a reporter, I had covered many aboriginal issues and had been in many first nations communities, where I had very positive experiences. I was committed to adopting an aboriginal child and to fostering that child's culture and heritage. My children know who they are and I'm proud of that.

My home was already filled with aboriginal art and books, and I made contacts with the aboriginal communities wherever possible where I was living. Here in Ottawa I've had great support from the Wabano Centre for Aboriginal Health. When I adopted I was told by Miranda's social worker in Kenora that her band had been informed that she was a crown ward eligible for adoption. Her community had an opportunity to make a plan for her and they were not able to do so. Today, as a non-aboriginal parent, I would probably not be permitted to adopt Miranda.

The political climate concerning the adoption of aboriginal children by non-aboriginal parents is a difficult one. You heard a little bit about that today. I want to tell you that sitting here it made me pretty uncomfortable. There's a bit of a subtext going on here, which is that as a non-aboriginal parent I'm an inferior parent to my aboriginal children. I have to say that makes me uncomfortable because I don't think it's true. It's not ideal, but I don't think we should be establishing families on the basis of race as a barrier, any more than we should be establishing on a racial basis.

I should also note that I took Miranda back to her home community when she was 16, and she has since reconnected with her birth family. I hope that if you have a youth panel, she'll be able to speak to you about that. I think she needed to make that reconnection, although it was not an easy experience for anybody.

Five years after I adopted Miranda, I adopted my second daughter, who was a member of the Aamjiwnaang First Nation, also known as the Chippewas of Sarnia. The process for that adoption was quite different, and I met with representatives from her band at that time. Although they didn't want to commit themselves in writing to approving the adoption in a non-aboriginal family, they did not oppose the adoption. In practice, they signed off on it without putting that in writing.

The Adoption Council of Canada's position is that, first of all, the federal government should, as Cindy Blackstock said, fund native child welfare agencies at least as well as provincial child welfare agencies so that they can support families and hopefully prevent aboriginal children--as we would like to prevent any child--from coming into care. However, when aboriginal children come into care we need to do a better job of recruiting aboriginal families. We also believe finding loving, qualified, permanent families should be the priority, regardless of the race of those families. Non-aboriginal families should be encouraged and helped to make cultural plans to nurture their children's culture. There are many wonderful adoptive parents who are aboriginal and many wonderful adoptive parents who are not aboriginal, and they parent aboriginal children.

A few years ago, the wonderful Joan Glode, from Mi'kmaq Children and Family Services in Nova Scotia, told a group of adoptive parents, including me, that when she was working with Nova Scotia to write legislation pertaining to adoption, they defined an aboriginal family as a family having one or more members who are aboriginal. That brought tears to my eyes, and that's how I now describe my family. We became an aboriginal family when I adopted my children. In some parts of British Columbia and Alberta, first nations recognize this inclusive principle. They have in fact adopted non-aboriginal parents, welcoming them with a blanket ceremony. I think Yellowhead is one of those agencies that you heard about today. This is the approach I would like to see individuals, communities, and federal and provincial governments and their agencies adopt across the country. Instead of excluding, let's include.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Candice Bergen]

Thank you very much.

You actually have a little bit of time left, so thank you. We'll share it around the table.

We'll now go to Mr. and Mrs. Loney.