Human Resources Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This topic is of great concern to me. You talked in your presentation about a youth rate of employment of 55.9%. So that is about one in two. Even though our average is above that of OECD countries, that merely shows that young people are facing difficulties all around the world.

I really like the program called How It's Made. I often visit companies in my riding. In particular, I visited the Neptune company. Someone was applying for a job at the human resources department. I continued my visit and, 45 minutes later, I ran into that same person who was already getting an introduction to the job. The owner said he could have hired 10 people that day.

On one hand, there is a labour shortage, but on the other, all these young people are out of work. We have to find a solution. There is also a demographic reality. Employers say that some employees are getting ready to retire, but that they cannot necessarily afford—especially SMEs—to hire a young person before the older employee leaves to pass on their knowledge. The older employee walks out the door with their knowledge. That is why a buddy or learning system has so much to offer.

In your presentation, you talked about a broad range of youth. As our study begins, I think it is important to lay out the federal government's role in youth education. Provincial governments have jurisdiction over labour laws. Federal jurisdiction extends only to the education of aboriginal persons, members of the Canadian forces, the Coast Guard, and offenders. The federal government can of course make investments through the Canada Social Transfer.

That said, I do not want to reinvent the wheel. We met with the Expert Panel on Youth Employment, which tabled a report last June and had met a lot of people. Its third recommendation is to rethink the delivery of youth employment programming. It recommends transferring all youth employment programs to the provincial and territorial governments.

What dealings does your department have with the provincial ministries that share the objectives and work with these youth?

In your minister's mandate letter, the Prime Minister asked her to work with provincial governments and post-secondary institutions to achieve objectives. I would like to know how that cooperation has been established.

Based on your shared objectives, how do you work together, while respecting your areas of jurisdiction?

[Rachel Wernick]

We will each answer your question.

[Benoit Tessier, Executive Director, Employer Liaison Services, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you for that good question.

Working with the provinces on skills development is in fact essential. For the student placement program the government created this year, we made a deliberate choice to uphold federal jurisdiction in this regard. That is why the government decided to invest on the employer side, to give employers wage subsidies, and to have a productive conversation with the provinces for them to reflect on investments in post-secondary institutions, co-op programs, and co-op offices at post-secondary institutions. As a result, we are currently having a very productive discussion with a number of provinces about a win-win model. The federal government can indeed play a role in creating more work placements in companies by giving employers fairly generous financial compensation to offset the risks they are taking. On the other hand, the government does not interfere in the management of post-secondary institutions such as universities and colleges, among others.

A number of provinces, including Ontario, New Brunswick, and Quebec—Premier Couillard talked about Germany's dual education system—, are considering or have already announced direct investments in post-secondary institutions. So we can say that there is good cooperation between the federal and provincial governments in this regard.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I would like to go back the recommendations of the expert panel or working group.

I would like to hear your opinion on the recommendations, including that of updating labour standards in Canada. Training and learning are of course essentially regulated by each province and territory, but the expert panel did recommend improving the labour standards in the Canada Labour Code in order to better address the precarious employment situation of youth. With respect to the law pertaining to atypical positions, for instance, the report recommended regulating temporary placement agencies and encouraging respect for labour rights.

A second recommendation pertained to expanding EI eligibility, since the reality of atypical employment among youth makes it difficult for them to meet the eligibility criteria. Another recommendation pertained to producing better statistics. You have given us various statistics.

I would like your opinion on these recommendations in particular. When an expert panel tables a report, how does the department respond to the recommendations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid I have to give you 10 seconds. You are actually over 30 seconds past your time, Madam Sansoucy, but I would offer time for a very brief answer, please.

[Rachel Wernick]

That is a very broad question, but I will try to get to the heart of it.

Clearly, we always try to contribute to efforts by the provinces and territories. We believe that the federal government has a role to play in nationwide programs to ensure equal access to services and support. Youth are among the groups targeted by nationwide programs. We collaborate a great deal on transfers to the provinces, which are in the order of $2 billion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut you off there.

Go ahead, Monsieur Robillard, please.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

All my questions are for the officials from Employment and Social Development.

Appearing before the committee last Tuesday, the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour talked about drawing on European models for student work placements. She referred in particular to the model in Germany, which impressed her.

Can you tell us to what extent models from other countries in Europe influenced the design of the Canadian model that you have put forward? What has each model contributed?

[Rachel Wernick]

I would say that, like any good public servant, when we prepare advice for the government, we survey the environment for promising practices, whether at the national, provincial or international level. Studying things that are done well, wherever that may be, is part of our daily work. There are several examples of promising practices. The minister talked about learning in Germany, but there are others that involve support for youth. It is part of our job to evaluate them before we offer advice.

[Benoit Tessier]

Let me give you a very specific example.

The new student career placement program, in which we have invested $73 million over four years, draws directly on the dual training model in Germany.

So we launched a pilot project, together with Siemens Canada, a German company whose main office already had German experience.

The Canadian office in Oakville launched a pilot project that matches up post-secondary institutions with an employer to offer very valuable work placements that included skills development. The skills in question were more than just technical skills, including more basic skills such as negotiation, communication, and so forth. It was a great success for the young people.

Siemens Canada saw this project as an opportunity to look for its next Canadian CEO.

On the basis of this project, the program has been expanded across Canada and further developed.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Can you tell us more about the proposed ban on unpaid internships? Why are you calling for this change?

[Rachel Wernick]

I think I mentioned in my opening remarks Bill C-63, which amended the Canada Labour Code to prohibit unpaid internships unless they're part of an educational program. What we're doing with the educational program is making sure that, although unpaid, they're covered by standard protections, such as maximum hours of work, weekly days of rest, and general holidays. We believe in the importance, as we've said, of experiential learning, internships, co-op, but of course they need to be

given working conditions that are acceptable to all Canadians and that are in line with the Canada Labour Code.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

How do you involve companies in the practical placement program for students? What kinds of companies can take part in the program?

[Benoit Tessier]

The program was developed with the cooperation of Canadian companies of all sizes and types, and with post-secondary institutions.

The program was designed to create partnerships with key sectors of the Canadian economy, such as the manufacturing sector.

Any company can take part in the program, whether large, small or medium-sized. The program is attractive to SMEs, however, since they have less money and resources and it can be more risky and expensive for them to hire students for co-op terms. Right now, companies of all sizes are taking part in the program, including SMEs.

One of our partners in the sector is responsible for recruiting the various companies from those sectors to participate.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Can you elaborate on how students, employers, and post-secondary educational institutions will benefit from the practical work term program for students?

[Benoit Tessier]

In our view, it is a win-win situation, or rather a win-win-win situation, since there are three parties involved.

The program allows employers to work with students who have not yet completed their studies, who are developing their skills, and to teach them about their business model and culture.

The program allows students to acquire new skills. As Ms. Wernick said at the beginning of the meeting, that allowed the students who wanted to enter the labour market to develop their skills during their learning process.

It also benefits the educational institutions because students are increasingly motivated to acquire work experience. They can see the benefits.

Finally, it allows the educational institutions to adapt their programs to current and future labour market realities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Merci.

Now we'll go over to MP Fortier for six minutes, please.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello. Thank you very much for being here today. The information you are providing is really essential to the study we have just begun.

I am privileged to have two post-secondary institutions in my riding, Collège La Cité and the University of Ottawa. They are at the college and university level. These institutions often work with employers to offer their students practical learning opportunities while they are doing their studies. On the other hand, I note that there are also vulnerable youth. Some are poor or of a different ethnic or cultural origin. They might be members of a cultural or linguistic minority, or aboriginal youth. They are not necessarily able to put themselves in winning situations. We want to examine this in our study.

Are there any initiatives or measures in this regard?

Ms. Wernick, you said earlier that you had recently considered some best practices.

Please tell us about some of those practices that could help vulnerable youth.

[Rachel Wernick]

Thank you for your question.

In many cases, vulnerable youth lack certain basic skills. They need job training. They are not yet ready for a work placement or to do well in it.

With regard to aboriginal youth and promising practices, I am familiar with the

aboriginal skills and employment training strategy. It's called BladeRunners, and it's in British Columbia. It's an example of a best practice, with a full wraparound service for the youth. You have to get at the desires and drivers of the youth themselves, and go through that process of what they want to do and why.

There are mentors and counsellors who are there with them as they go. They are the people who are in between the youth client and the employer, who do what is needed to help provide youth with sustained and successful experiences. For example, if employers don't have time and don't want to be bothered if the youth is late or doesn't show up or doesn't call to explain what's going on, then the intervenor does.

It's often for vulnerable youth, with what we call wraparound supports and case management. It's with those kinds of supports that address other barriers that are impeding them from reaching their full potential that we see success. In our renewal of the strategy, we're looking at how we can tailor more of these types of approaches for the different groups, whether they're indigenous youth, refugee youth, or youth with disabilities.

Grosso modo, that's the kind of intervention that seems to work.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

It is often difficult for young women or women in general to find work in science, engineering, or even in the trades.

Please tell us about existing or new measures that could help young women get into those fields.

[Benoit Tessier]

I can tell you about the work placement program the government launched. As indicated in the presentation, the program provides $5,000 in wage compensation for young people. That is 50% of what a young person earns at a company. In the case of women who are trying to break into the sciences, mathematics, engineering or business, the contribution is even more generous. It is 70% of the salary, or $7,000 for a typical placement, which is about four months long.

These are some of the measures we have implemented thus far.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Employers are often more interested in offering experiential learning to young people who are paid.

How can we really encourage employers to take part in and commit to this program? As the saying goes, it is often a question of money. How can we encourage them to take part in these programs, other than financially?

[Benoit Tessier]

That is a good question and we thought about it often in developing the program.

In my humble opinion, the beauty of the program is that it includes not only wage compensation for youth, but also a fund that is available to create viable, long-term partnerships between a group of employers in a given sector, or in a given region, and a group of post-secondary institutions with a view to building a long-term relationship. We also humbly believe that, because we are all managers and also hire students ourselves, it almost makes us want to start again. There are many brilliant graduates of those programs who, after one, two or three experiences—I can tell you with certainty that the employers have very positive reports and might then put a bit more energy into hiring students in the future.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Now we go to MP Wong, please.