Human Resources Committee on May 15th, 2020

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you.

Also, I want to ask about the $350 million that's going to be provided to charities. We heard about the United Way, the Red Cross and other charities that are going to be able to deliver programming, but we still are trying to get details from these groups. A number of seniors I talked to are still questioning how they are going to take advantage of this. How is that money going to be disbursed specifically to seniors in various communities?

[Benoît Robidoux]

You're talking about the $9 million, right?

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes.

[Benoît Robidoux]

Instead of trying to give you my best answer, I'll ask Janet Goulding, who runs that program, to give you the best answer possible.

[Janet Goulding, Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

The additional $9 million that was allocated to the new horizons for seniors program is being administered through United Way Canada, but the money is being distributed through local organizations that are providing services directly to seniors by delivering essential services like food or medication or helping seniors get to medical appointments. It's not the United Way itself. The United Way is providing that funding directly to organizations that are working in communities across the country to already provide services to seniors. The funding allows them to continue to do that.

[Kate Young, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Depending on how long this pandemic lasts—and that is the big question that we have—is the department considering more top-ups of the GIS or the OAS?

You did talk about an exit strategy. I'd be very happy to hear that we are looking towards that, but there is certainly fear within the seniors community that this will last a long time and that possibly the top-up that we've announced this week will only be enough for a couple of months. Is there consideration in the long term that we might have to add to this again?

[Benoît Robidoux]

As I said, these days, we spend a lot of time every day on this, and we're looking at all the permutations possible, depending on how the economy will recover, when socialization is relaxed, how things will evolve, so we have different scenarios. We're thinking about different options, and we're looking at, for example—and I'm not going to pick any benefit in particular—whether we should expand some of these benefits as they are and for how long. We're looking at whether we should, indeed, expand them, but modify them. We're looking at when we should, in fact, stop them.

In that context, we're thinking also about those, for example, who are receiving the CERB and are EI-eligible. We're thinking about how to tag these people and put them back into the EI system in a way that they will still have a smooth transition and receive the benefits that they are entitled to. We're thinking about all these different permutations. The only thing I can say is that we spend a lot of time on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Robidoux. Thank you, Ms. Young.

Now we're back to the Conservatives for five minutes. I'm not sure whether it's Mr. Shields or Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

If Mr. Shields wants to go, I'm more than happy to let him, but I can take a round. I'm just respectful of our guest.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Go ahead.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Martin.

I would like to go back to the question of eligibility. In the CERB act officially, there are three parts: You need to be physically in Canada, you need to have made $5,000 of employment income, and you need to have ceased work due to COVID-19.

I would like an answer. Are there any extended checks when someone identifies himself or herself as being age 75 or older? I heard anecdotally from someone that there's an extra check process for that. Can you confirm that?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I believe that for people who apply to CRA, there's a check for the age. I don't know if it's related to 75, but there's a check.

You mentioned the lower age. I believe there's a check there too at CRA. When we can, without hurting the delivery of the payments, we do the check on the basic information we have. I hope that answers your question.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Let's say someone who is age 75 has not shown any income. One of the eligibility requirements is $5,000 of income in 2019. Are you saying that neither Service Canada nor CRA—which, by the way, should have that information easily accessible—does a check on that?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I could turn again to Cliff to give you exactly what we do for age 75.

We check what we have for information and we would do that. I would remind you there are some people who are 75-plus who do work and have earned income in the previous year. All that is to say that when we have information, we do check, but we are not trying to gather information outside of the system to check these things at the entry point.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In regard to the $5,000, if someone has not shown that they've earned $5,000, is there a red flag put on their account?

[Benoît Robidoux]

For people who apply at Service Canada, we don't have that information, so there's no red flag possible.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

What about the CRA?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I will let a CRA official speak to whether or not they put a red flag on that.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Going back to your comments earlier that you were not asked by the Prime Minister or the Minister of Employment, are you saying that the memo was 100% originated in the public service?

[Benoît Robidoux]

The government gives us direction about the intent of the policy. This was provided by the legislation. It was provided by the direction that it was very important for us to deliver that benefit as quickly as possible to Canadians, and the operation of the benefit fell out of that approach.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

How was this direction documented?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I will turn to Cliff.

[Cliff C. Groen]

Thank you, Benoît.

When we deliver any different program, always our starting basis is the legislation. All of our actions, all the guidance and direction we provide for our staff—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

How is it documented, sir?

[Cliff C. Groen]

The documentation starts with the legislation, and then we have guidance that we develop for our staff. That is the process we use.