Human Resources Committee on May 15th, 2020

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much to the committee. Again, you're doing amazing work, and I really appreciate the opportunity to come before you.

Have a great day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We're suspended for three minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We are back in session with the officials.

We're going to begin with our rounds of questions, beginning with Ms. Falk for six minutes.

Ms. Falk, you have the floor.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

That's perfect. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and just so you know, I will be splitting my time with MP Vis.

First of all, I want to thank the department for being here. We know that Canada's seniors are particularly vulnerable to the health impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, and we certainly know also that they have not been immune to the economic and social fallout. COVID-19 has put a strain on the social services and the resources available to support Canada's seniors, and we know that this has exposed the fragility of our existing network.

In a previous meeting, I shared a particular struggle that some of my constituents are living with, who live in small rural communities and have limited access to support. We know the Liberal carbon tax is unfairly penalizing these rural communities. This also includes our seniors living in rural communities who have to drive a distance to get basic necessities like groceries or prescriptions, and shamefully, in the middle of this pandemic, the carbon tax has gone up, taking more money out of their pockets.

As a member of Parliament for a riding that's made up of many small rural communities, I know there are often barriers and challenges to accessing supports and services. One thing I'm wondering is with the closure of Service Canada offices, Canadians are required to access support by phone or online. This presents specific challenges for some of Canada's seniors, and greater challenges for those living in rural communities where network access is inconsistent.

I am wondering what timeline or plans are in place to reopen these offices and how this is going to coincide with provincial opening plans. I'm in Saskatchewan, and for example, phase two will be starting on Tuesday.

[Benoît Robidoux, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Mr. Chair, I will pick up that question and pass it to my collective group afterwards. At their level, we effectively closed these centres, and we have worked hard to improve our phone and online connections. People can send emails and get an answer within a standard amount of time. We did our best to help these rural communities that are more affected by that.

Again, the service centres, our call centres are not the best we ever had—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

For sure. I'm sorry, I just have limited time. I need to get to MP Vis.

I'm just wondering if there's a plan and a timeline. At least has a plan started?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I will ask my colleague Cliff Groen to answer that question.

[Cliff C. Groen, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Canada - Benefit Delivery Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Certainly.

Active plans are under way within the department. As well as the rest of the country—and frankly the globe—we continue to adjust our plans as the COVID pandemic evolves. We certainly have active plans in place. We know it is important that we are able to open our offices as quickly as possible, but it's also critical that we do so in a safe manner, both for our clients and for our staff.

As a result, when we closed the offices, we did establish—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Okay, thank you. I'd like to pass my time to MP Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

I read in The Globe and Mail this morning that individuals earning up to $128,000 per year receive at least some payment under the OAS and will get the emergency benefit.

Can officials please clarify that?

[Benoît Robidoux]

Yes, Mr. Chair, as the minister mentioned before, there's a clawback, a tax recovery—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

But seniors making $128,000 a year will get the $300 benefit?

[Benoît Robidoux]

If they're included in our database and still receive OAS so that—

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

As Tammy Schirle, professor of economics at Wilfrid Laurier University, said, it's easy to understand why Ottawa would see the need to assist lower-income seniors.

I agree. I have a lot of seniors in my riding seeking additional supports. There has been some inflation in groceries in my riding, especially in the rural areas, but Professor Schirle said that she has not heard a rationale from the government for why it did not simply target benefits to those seniors and instead chose to send funds to higher-income seniors.

Can the officials please provide the rationale as to why seniors making over $100,000 a year are going to be getting an additional grant from the government?

[Benoît Robidoux]

First, the benefit is going to provide more to those who are low income, who are receiving the GIS, as you know.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

But you would also agree that it is going to seniors who also make over $100,000, a six-figure income.

[Benoît Robidoux]

I did respond to that before. I will continue my answer if you let me do that.

I would also say that, as the minister mentioned, the GST credit top-up that was provided to all Canadians from low- and modest-income benefited seniors in April. Only those of low and modest income benefited from that.

With this new benefit, the government believes that all seniors were somewhat affected by higher costs, so we just based the $300 on all OAS-eligible pensioners. We're covering all the seniors who were not covered up to now by other programs.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay, thank you. I have very limited time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Next we go to Mr. Turnbull for six minutes, please.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all the officials for being here. I really appreciate you giving us your time and answering questions.

On May 11, there was an article regarding federal workers being supposedly told to ignore cheating in the CERB and EI claims process. If you could just give me a yes or no response to this, is ESDC ignoring cases of fraud?

[Benoît Robidoux]

We are not.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Can you please explain the rationale behind the guidance that was given to employees in Service Canada, if you wouldn't mind.

[Benoît Robidoux]

Guidance was provided to Service Canada. What we did with the CERB was to change our way to do integrity, to do more at the back end and less at the front end, because we had a huge volume to process.

I would say, though, that if you read that memo, there's mention of three elements that still need to be done by people who process the benefit at the front end. It's the same for the CRA; they have some elements at the front end.

There will also be an integrity process at the time that people receive their benefit and there will also be, at the back end, elements to do integrity post-benefit, later in the year.

We have a plan, it's just that we had to modify it to flow the benefit, which was a priority of the government, but we have not given up—

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I am sorry to interrupt you. It was really a prioritization of speed, was it not?

[Benoît Robidoux]

It was. That was the priority and we had to adapt the integrity model.