Evidence of meeting #11 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cerb.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Benoît Robidoux  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Cliff C. Groen  Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Canada - Benefit Delivery Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Janet Goulding  Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Kathryn McDade  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Pursuant to the orders of reference of March 24, April 11 and April 28, 2020, the committee is meeting for the purpose of receiving evidence concerning matters related to the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Today’s meeting is taking place by video conference, and the proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The website will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

In order to facilitate the work of our interpreters and to ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. In order to resolve sound issues, please ensure that you are on the English channel when speaking English, and on the French channel when speaking French. If you plan to alternate from one language to the other, please also switch the interpretation channel so it aligns with the language you are speaking.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, please click on the microphone icon to activate your mike.

I'll remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Should members need to request the floor outside of their designated time for questions, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order. If you wish to speak to a point of order raised by one of your colleagues, please use the “raise hand” function.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Thank you to everyone who is using headsets. For anyone who is using the earbuds with the integrated microphone, please ensure that the microphone isn't rubbing against your shirt when you're speaking.

Should any technical challenges arise, for example in relation to interpretation or if you are accidentally disconnected, please advise the chair or the clerk immediately, and the technical team will work to resolve them. Please note that we may need to suspend during these times, as we need to ensure that all members are able to fully participate. If you haven't already done so, click on gallery view, if you could, on the top right of your screen, so that you can see everyone.

I would now like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. With us today we have the Minister of Seniors, the Honourable Deb Schulte. Accompanying her from Employment and Social Development Canada are Benoît Robidoux, associate deputy minister; Kathryn McDade, senior assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch; Janet Goulding, assistant deputy minister, income security and social development branch; Cliff Groen, assistant deputy minister, Service Canada; and finally, Stephanie Hébert, assistant deputy minister, program operations branch.

Minister Schulte, please make your opening remarks.

May 15th, 2020 / 11:05 a.m.

King—Vaughan Ontario

Liberal

Deb Schulte LiberalMinister of Seniors

Good morning.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, I am very pleased to join you today and to appear before this committee for the first time.

We know that seniors are at increased risk of more severe outcomes from COVID-19 and are negatively impacted by the pandemic. They need our help and our support. As Minister of Seniors and member of the ad hoc committee on COVID-19, I am committed to ensure that seniors’ needs across Canada are carefully considered and addressed. Since the pandemic was declared, I have been in contact with my provincial and territorial counterparts. I have heard from many stakeholders, as well as the National Seniors Council. What I am hearing is informing the Government of Canada’s response to the pandemic.

To protect seniors' financial security during these uncertain times, the government has introduced the following measures. First, we are providing a one-time, tax-free payment of $300 for seniors eligible for old age security, and an additional $200 for seniors eligible for the guaranteed income supplement. This means that low-income seniors who are eligible to receive both old age security and the guaranteed income supplement will receive $500 to help them cover increased costs caused by COVID-19. A couple where both are receiving the GIS special payment and the GST credit special payment could receive, on average, a total of over $1,500 to help them cope with the pandemic.

In April, both low- and middle-income seniors received a supplementary payment under the GST credit worth an average of $375 for singles and an average of $510 for couples. We are reducing the minimum withdrawals from the registered retirement income funds by 25% for 2020. We have also adopted measures to ensure that guaranteed income supplement payments continue without interruption if a senior's 2019 income information has not been received. In addition, the government created the Canada emergency response benefit, CERB, to help all Canadians, including working seniors, with financial hardship as a result of the loss of employment income due to COVID-19. Pension benefits do not affect eligibility.

I want to address the situation in long-term care homes. As you know, seniors living in these facilities are the hardest hit in this pandemic. While long-term care is regulated by provincial and territorial governments, the federal government is working together, in a team Canada approach, to help residents and staff stay safe. We released interim guidelines for long-term care homes to prevent and control COVID-19 infections. We invested $2 billion to purchase personal protective equipment for essential health workers, including long-term care workers. We provided $3 billion to provinces and territories to increase the wages of low-income essential workers, such as long-term care workers. We deployed personnel from the Canadian Armed Forces to 25 long-term care facilities in Quebec and Ontario—20 in Quebec and five in Ontario. As the Prime Minister said, there are serious underlying challenges facing these facilities, and in the coming months the federal government will work alongside the provinces and territories to find lasting solutions.

Finally, the government is providing funding to support vulnerable Canadians, including seniors, with over half a billion dollars in funding to United Way Centraide Canada, the Canadian Red Cross, Community Foundations of Canada, local food banks and local food organizations. We are providing flexibility for $50 million of previously funded new horizons for seniors projects so that they can now use their funds to meet the needs seniors are facing due to COVID-19. We also announced an additional investment of $20 million in community projects that reduce isolation, improve seniors’ quality of life, and help them maintain the social support networks they so desperately need.

Thank you for the opportunity to present what the government has done to protect seniors during this difficult time.

To the chair and the committee, I want to give you a personal shout-out and thanks for the excellent work you're doing.

I'd be pleased to answer any questions.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Minister. Fortunately, we do have questions.

We'll start with Mr. Shields for six minutes, please.

Welcome to the committee, Mr. Shields.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's always good to see you, Minister. I appreciate the work you're doing for seniors.

You've run through the list of things that you've worked on. When you met with the shadow minister and me, one of the things in the letter that we discussed was the RRIF piece. I know that you've talked about the 25%, but what we're hearing constantly is that there are two pieces to the RRIF. We have those people who would like it to stay 100% within the fund, and those who would like to take out more, without penalty.

I'm sure you've heard about this. I'm sure you've looked into it. I'm sure you've discussed this with your staff and with Finance. What are your thoughts, and what have you learned about this particular aspect? It is a significant request that we're hearing from seniors.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you very much. I want to say that it's very nice to be back in the committee forum with you. I really enjoyed working with you over so many years on the environment committee.

Those definitely are two things that we're hearing, along with many other suggestions that seniors are sending us and telling us they'd like us to consider. Those considerations that you have brought forward are ones that were being considered before the COVID pandemic. Obviously, for the government, our focus right now is to get money into the hands of seniors in need, especially our vulnerable seniors, to make sure they can deal with the very immediate cost increases they've seen, such as grocery and transportation costs going up and increases in medication dispensing fees. All of those things we've heard loud and clear, so the focus was to get the money into the hands of Canadian seniors who are in need right now.

On these other considerations, such as the stock market fluctuating up and down, we immediately addressed that with a 25% reduction in their mandatory withdrawals out of the RRIFs, and I have to say that we are keeping a close eye on what is going on with the market and also on seniors' needs across the country during this time.

We'll keep considering these suggestions and will keep them in mind as we move forward in dealing with the pandemic and its implications for and impacts on seniors.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you.

I would suggest that those two changes don't take a lot of bureaucratic staff to do. We don't need a lot of staff to do them, and they would put money in the hands of people very quickly. It wouldn't take a lot of changes to do this. A couple of regulation changes on either one of those, and it's money either in the hands of seniors or protecting their investments. It could be done very simply, so I hope you would continue to look at that and consider it seriously.

There's another issue I'd like to mention with the filing of income tax forms in the manner that I'm still familiar with, which is paper forms. We hear from seniors who are used to doing paper forms, but as you may have noticed, the CRA people were mentioning that those forms are being mailed in and are being left sitting in an office in Ottawa because CRA people are working from home. There again, for seniors, there's money in refunds that they could use very quickly, but it is not being returned. Do you have any response to that issue, which you've probably heard of?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

I definitely have heard of the impacts. All industries, including our own government organizations and Canada Post, have been experiencing difficulties with people who get sick from COVID-19 and are having to stay home, with the implications of physical distancing that now need to be put into the workplace, and with working from home.

Obviously, Canada Post is not going to have an environment of working from home. They're going to need to put practices into place. We've seen that they are working very hard to do that. Their intent is to make sure that the mail gets to customers as fast as possible, and they're working on those issues that have been identified recently.

For the government, in terms of making sure that Canadians, especially seniors, receive those important benefits that they need, we are encouraging them to do as much online banking as they can. You're absolutely right that there are those who don't, so we are doing everything we can to make sure that those cheques get to seniors who need them and that the programs we're implementing are as easy as possible. That's why we are not making our benefit such that someone has to apply, because that just makes it very complicated for those seniors who, as you mentioned, aren't online.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you. I hope you follow that up with CRA and those forms move out and get dealt with.

Another one that you are very familiar with is medication. Seniors are very concerned about the three-month renewal for medications now going down to one month. As you would realize, this means that they have to leave their homes, and they're concerned about leaving their homes in these times of isolation. They're concerned about volunteers or the lack of volunteers to go and get these medications, and they're really concerned about why we have a shortage in Canada.

There are those three things in terms of medications. There are the increased dispensing fees, because you have to get these monthly if you're not on a plan, the availability and the one-month issuing. Those are causing significant concerns for seniors.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Give a short answer, please, Minister.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you very much.

I just want to say that we are fully aware of the challenges [Technical difficulty—Editor].

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.

Thank you, Minister.

Next is Mr. Long, for six minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you, and good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to the rest of my colleagues, from Saint John, New Brunswick.

It's wonderful to have our minister here today.

I have a question for you, Minister. First, thank you for taking the time to join us today to talk about what our federal government is doing to support seniors during this incredibly challenging time for them and for all Canadians.

Over the past two months, my team and I have talked to hundreds of seniors living on fixed incomes in my riding of Saint John—Rothesay, who are facing significant increased costs for things such as groceries, grocery deliveries and medications as a result of COVID-19, and I have been advocating for federal financial relief for seniors on their behalf. That's why I was thrilled to be able to share the news with seniors in my riding of the OAS and GIS top-up that you announced on Monday.

Can you tell us about the impact of the COVID-19 financial relief measures we have announced to date, the impact they will have on the average senior couple? Can you also explain why the top-up to OAS and GIS payments is the most effective way to deliver COVID-19 financial relief to seniors living on fixed incomes?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you for your advocacy. MPs like you have been writing and reflecting on the important messages they've been getting from their constituents. We've been hearing it also through the ministry, and I've been hearing it in my riding.

Seniors are really struggling with these additional costs and also with isolation. What we announced this week addresses these two things quite directly.

We have made it very simple to access this benefit, in that you do not have to apply. If you are receiving OAS or are eligible for old age security, you will be receiving the $300 one-time special payment, and you don't have to apply. This is also true if you're receiving the guaranteed income supplement. You will get a special payment of an additional $200.

A couple on GIS, the guaranteed income supplement, will get $1,000 from this new measure we brought forward this week, along with the GST top-up from April that they would have received. On average, they would have received, as a couple, $510, so if you add the two, that's over $1,500 of immediate COVID-19 support. That is a significant help to seniors who are struggling with those additional costs.

To address the other issue, isolation, we've upped the new horizons for seniors money, which is money that goes directly to groups that are on the ground in communities serving seniors, helping them access those groceries and get those supplies. They need help. If they're in their homes and can't go out or are afraid to go out, now they have community support to help them.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Thank you very much for that, Minister.

Mr. Chair, I want to share the rest of my time with MP Dong.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Thank you to MP Long for sharing his time.

Minister, it's good to see you here.

As you know, I was a member of the Ontario legislature. I know that the current Ontario government has taken a very different approach when it comes to long-term care homes, as compared to that of the previous government, in terms of funding and policy priorities. I've seen it. I've seen the effects of it on the ground in my riding of Don Valley North.

How are you going to work with your cabinet colleagues and the premiers across the country to make sure that what we've seen with COVID-19, its effect on the vulnerable population living in long-term care homes, is not going to happen again going forward?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you very much for that question. We've all been struck by the horrors we have seen in the news of seniors being negatively affected in these homes.

I just want to make a point that not all homes are challenged like this. There are many well-run homes, both private and public. I have my mother-in-law in a long-term care home and my father-in-law in a seniors residence. I can tell you that the staff there on the front lines supporting them are excellent, and they're well-run homes. Not every home is facing these challenges, but every home is working very hard to keep seniors safe, and you're definitely seeing that some are not doing well.

The federal government immediately wanted to provide support. This is regulated by provinces and territories. However, we've been there, as I mentioned, as a team Canada approach. Rather than wrangling over things, it was, “What do we need to do right now to keep the staff and the residents in these homes safe?” We immediately asked what we could do.

I heard on my calls that what was needed was help in understanding the guidance needed to keep people safe. Very quickly, the Public Health Agency of Canada worked with the public health agencies across the country to come up with guidance to help these homes keep their residents and staff safe.

We knew that there was an issue in acquiring personal protective equipment, with a world shortage in these supplies, so we worked 24-7 in engaging with all the resources we had to bring in as much PPE as possible, and we engaged with businesses in Canada that were looking at a built-in-Canada approach. Many have taken up the torch, and I give much credit to companies that have stepped in to start working on building PPE to support our essential workers, who are working so hard to keep us safe.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Dong.

Ms. Larouche, welcome to the committee. You have the floor for six minutes.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Good morning, Minister Schulte. I am pleased to talk to you this morning. As soon as I arrived in the House on December 6, I had the opportunity to ask a question about the importance of increasing the old age security pension by $110 per month, starting at age 65. You crossed the floor to thank me and tell me that it was a good question.

Will this good question about the importance of increasing the pension for our seniors still apply today—during the crisis, the pandemic—and even afterwards?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you very much for your question.

While the government remains committed to implementing our policies and our platform commitments, at this time we are focusing on what we need to do to help seniors during the pandemic. This is why we have worked to do a very quick implementation of a one-time quick payment to get the money into the hands of our seniors quickly. That is why we did it this way, but you can be sure that the government remains committed to implementing the policies that were in our platform.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Yes, Minister, you even promised to increase the pension. We had hammered home the message that it should be increased by $110 a month at age 65, while increasing the guaranteed income supplement to help the most disadvantaged seniors. At this time, as you yourself said, the assistance is for getting through the crisis. That is one thing, but what will happen in the summer? Seniors will have received a one-time payment, but what will happen afterwards?

You say that you want to keep your election promises. After the crisis, can we expect that it will be high time to apply the increase to the old age security pension and the increase to the guaranteed income supplement? This is a period of rising costs, and that will continue after the crisis. I am thinking in particular of the costs of medication. In addition, seniors often have to pay to have their groceries delivered, and the cost of that grocery basket has also increased. Let's also think about the cost of transportation. Some people usually take public transit, but now they have to take taxis, which is more expensive.

In short, everything costs more, and the costs are going up for seniors as well. The assistance that is being offered right now is a good thing, but after the crisis, the needs will remain.

Can we expect an announcement from you after the crisis regarding an increase in the old age security pension and an increase in the guaranteed income supplement?

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

I just want to say that the government has been watching very closely what has been happening to Canadians during this pandemic. We are focused right now on dealing with the best way to get Canadians through the impacts we're having as a result of the pandemic and as a result of the measures we've had to take to keep people safe and reduce the loss of lives. I'm very aware that there were increased costs. Seniors wrote, and we've been watching the market basket measures and looking to see what is actually going on, on the ground, with people who are trying to survive this pandemic.

What I can say is that we have seen that there are prices that have gone up. We saw the market drop. We've seen the market coming back up. We have seen prices go up, and now they're starting to stabilize and go down. We don't know what will happen as we move through the next few months. You can be sure that we're watching very closely what's happening and what measures may need to be done to help get Canadians, especially our seniors, through this.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you.

I made this request during the election campaign, and we reiterated it as soon as we arrived in Ottawa. We actually made it a condition of our support for the budget. We hammered away at that request. I went to Ottawa three times to ask for help. Finally it came. Let's hope that it will not be only temporary and that something else will be set up after the crisis.

Seniors are also very concerned about the state of our health care system. There was the whole issue of the CHSLDs in Quebec, seniors' residences and the care they receive. The crisis clearly shows that it is high time and extremely urgent to increase health care transfers. We are asking that this assistance be recurrent and that the transfers be increased to 6%. This is essential and crucial, because after the crisis, health care needs will remain.

Is the minister also aware that the government will have to deal with the desperately urgent issue of transferring health care funds to the provinces, including Quebec?

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you very much for the question. I want to assure the member that this issue is one that my colleague the Minister of Health would probably be best to address, so the committee should probably invite her to come and join you.

We have been very supportive of the provinces during this pandemic to help address the increased costs. We gave over half a billion dollars to provinces and territories, at the very beginning of this, to assist them with the health care costs and to help them get ready to address the rising costs and the changes they would need to do in order to get the health care system ready for the pandemic. As I mentioned before, we put $2 billion on the table for protective equipment for essential workers, including those on the front lines in health care. We also provided $3 billion to the provinces and territories to help them with wage subsidies for those front-line workers, especially long-term care workers who needed to be properly compensated for working in the environment they're working in.

We've been putting a tremendous amount of money on the table to support the provinces and territories in the health sector. We'll continue to be there for the provinces and territories. You heard the Prime Minister. We're there with our military, actually going in and supporting 25 long-term care centres with people—

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Minister.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Deb Schulte Liberal King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you.