Human Resources Committee on May 15th, 2020

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Is there an actual document in which the Prime Minister or cabinet, or the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, as the lead minister on this file, does that? In what form was it documented to give direction to utilize this policy?

[Cliff C. Groen]

Again, as I was answering, the documentation is the legislation. We use the legislation. Then we have to loyally implement the legislation as it is drafted. That is the process—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

For people who have not made $5,000 or are of an age that, as I said earlier, may or may not make them eligible, how is it, sir, that you are then able to determine eligibility and issue the cheque?

[Cliff C. Groen]

The design of the program is clear. It is an attestation-based model in which information is requested from the clients to confirm that they meet those criteria. In addition, other questions are asked of those individuals. We use that information at times for upfront controls, and there are payments that are stopped. At other times, that happens after the fact. If we decided to put all of the upfront controls in place, we would be in a situation in which millions of Canadians would not have received payments. We absolutely—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I believe—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Albas. That's your time.

If you want to take another 10 or 15 seconds to complete your answer, go ahead, but there won't be another question.

Go ahead, Mr. Groen, if you need to.

[Cliff C. Groen]

Thank you.

Both we and CRA have lots of measures if there have been payments made to individuals who are not eligible. We have lots of measures available to us and CRA through which that money will be recovered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Next we have Mr. Long, for five minutes.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the department.

This is for anybody in the department.

The recent HUMA report called “Advancing Inclusion and Quality of Life for Seniors” recommended that the federal government work with the federal, provincial and territorial ministers responsible for health and social programs to develop pan-Canadian guidelines for services to be provided to seniors, regardless of where they reside in Canada.

The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted both issues related to limited services as well as inequities across the country. Moreover, it was recently reported that 79% of all deaths from COVID-19 were related to long-term care facilities.

What action is the government taking in the short term to work with provincial and territorial partners to ensure that seniors have access to the supports they need to age in place?

Anybody can take that.

[Benoît Robidoux]

Kathryn, are you on the line?

[Kathryn McDade, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Sorry, Benoît. I am on the line, but I'm not sure I heard the entire question.

Chair, I believe it's a question regarding a recent report from HUMA around inclusion for seniors. I'm not sure that I have anything to add to the answers that the minister provided around the short-term or urgent work that's being done with provincial and territorial governments to support seniors in long-term care facilities.

The minister also talked about her own work on the New Horizons for Seniors program, and with organizations like the United Way and the Canadian Red Cross, to support local organizations that deliver services. I'm not sure I have anything to add to her answers.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Can you comment on what the government can do in the longer term to ensure that seniors have access to safe and appropriate home health care or long-term care, regardless of where they reside? Can you give us some comments on the long term?

[Kathryn McDade]

I don't think I would try to comment, Chair, on long-term care and home care policies. I know, as the minister said, that colleagues at Health Canada who have the lead role with provincial and territorial governments are thinking about the long-term implications of the pandemic, but they'd be best placed to answer those questions.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

In April, the government announced that an additional $350 million would be provided to charities and non-profits to deliver essential services. There were few details provided, though, other than that funds would flow through national organizations and be quickly distributed to local organizations that serve vulnerable populations.

Could you please provide more detail as to how these funds will be used to support organizations that provide essential services to vulnerable seniors?

[Benoît Robidoux]

I'd like to ask Janet Goulding to answer this question.

[Janet Goulding]

On the $350-million emergency community support fund, we expect that our partners, the United Way, Community Foundations of Canada and the Red Cross, will be opening a call for proposals very shortly.

There will be a very transparent process for organizations to find out how they can apply to the fund, and the funds are, of course, targeted to charities and non-profits that are providing services directly to vulnerable populations that are impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

That information will be available publicly on their websites very shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Goulding. Thank you, Mr. Long.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Can you just comment quickly on what measures are being put in place to be sure that social service workers have access to the training—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Long, you are out of time. Thank you.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is about seasonal workers who have to deal with the infamous EI black hole. We are very pleased that they are eligible for the CERB, since, in their sectors, activities will be resumed late, or perhaps not at all. However, if these workers are not called back, how will their hours be calculated so that they will be eligible for EI again in the fall, even if they receive the CERB?

Yesterday, the government made an announcement for the fishery. One of the measures introduced states that income earned by fishers in previous seasons can be used to calculate their EI benefits. Are similar measures being considered for workers in other seasonal industries?

[Benoît Robidoux]

Thank you for your question, Ms. Chabot.

As I said earlier, any specific cases that arise this summer or fall will be handled according to how the situation evolves and how the recovery unfolds. We are studying all of this very carefully and we will look at the possibilities and options for the government in due course.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

So I gather that you still don't have an answer to that question.

I do not have any more questions, but I will address the issue of the CERB fraudsters, although I wanted to avoid it.

As an elected official, I am concerned about the support available to businesses and industries, some of which use tax havens with complete impunity. I am much more concerned about this corporate tax avoidance than I am about the possibility that a few people will abuse the CERB. I am sure that the recipients of this benefit are not acting in bad faith. It is possible that some people may be abusing the system, but I do not think many are.

I will conclude by giving the example of a senior in my riding who, like 60% of seniors in Canada, relies on their pension alone as a minimum income. This person, who also has a little job on the side, applied for the CERB and received it, but has since returned the cheque because they did not qualify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Chabot.

Ms. Kwan gets the last word.

You have two and a half minutes, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Could officials give us an update on what work is being done regarding single parents with children who have lost their income because their ex cannot provide for spousal or child maintenance? What work is being done? The last time the minister appeared before this committee, she said she was actively thinking about this. It has been almost more than a month since this matter was brought to her attention. What work is being done to address this issue?

[Benoît Robidoux]

We are continuing to look at this as one of the angles with the benefit in order to help these women right now. This is part of what we're looking at in terms of things that could be done through CERB to help people.

I can tell you that we are looking at it and trying to find—