Human Resources Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[Cliff C. Groen]

I'll just add that, on the challenge we are encountering with the delivery of the one-time payment, some of it definitely has to do with the technology challenges we have. There is a plan related to replacing the technology through which the old age security program is delivered. There's an initiative called “benefits delivery modernization”, which will be replacing the technical platform moving forward. That's a key investment that has been made, and the project is under way in that regard.

Another part of the challenge we have related to the timing is that it coincides with the tax season. We are in the midst of issuing 12 million tax slips, which is part of our obligation in delivering the program. That also coincides with the renewal period for GIS and us working directly with the Canada Revenue Agency.

We are doing absolutely everything we can to advance this payment as quickly as possible, and it remains very much a high priority for us to be able to deliver it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Groen, and thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

Now I need direction from the committee. I'm in the hands of the committee.

We are past one o'clock, but as you are aware, we agreed to suspend for a while. Do I have the consensus of the committee to proceed?

Madam Khera, are you available for a while?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Yes I am, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Next up is Mr. Benzen in the five-minute rounds, and then, if the committee is agreeable, we would conclude with the two 2.5-minute rounds for Madame Chabot and Madam Zarrillo. That gets everybody.

Do I see consensus on that?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

That's great. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good. Then it will be Mr. Benzen, Madame Martinez Ferrada, Madame Chabot and Madam Zarrillo.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, committee members.

Mr. Benzen, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister Khera, for being here today.

I think this “age well at home” initiative has an opportunity to be a really good initiative, so I'd like to ask a couple of questions about it.

It says here that you made a decision to use volunteers. I'd like to understand why you decided to use volunteers.

Also, right now we're having labour shortages; we have increases in the number of seniors, and seniors are living longer. Are we going to have enough volunteers in the end to make this program successful?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Allow me to talk briefly about why it is a priority for this government to make sure we can get as.... We know that seniors and older Canadians want to live in their own homes independently as much as they want. This pandemic has certainly highlighted that Canadians desire to age in their own communities as long as possible. Sadly, we know that many vulnerable seniors do not have all the supports needed to live independently in their own communities.

We did a number of measures in the past as well. I will take you back to 2016, when our government put a major investment, billion of dollars, into home care in a health accord with the provinces and territories.

You alluded to the age well at home program. For that program, $90 million over three years was put in the last budget to do that important work. This initiative will provide funding opportunities to offer practical support for seniors-serving organizations. That would be support with meals, housekeeping, yardwork or any of the work that seniors-serving organizations can provide on the ground to vulnerable seniors in their own communities.

Funding would also be available for regional and national projects to expand services that have already shown results in helping seniors age in their own communities. This is going to mobilize the seniors-serving organizations and recognize the important work they do.

I will turn to Annette to provide a bit more depth on this program.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I was really just concerned about whether you will have enough volunteers. I mean, people are looking to hire people, and they can't get people to come and work. I'm not sure you're going to have enough volunteers.

I would like to address another issue. It's great that people are going to get help at home to cut their lawn and get groceries and various other things like that, but I think the major thing about living and aging at home is medical costs. This might come under the aging at home benefit, which you could talk about. It's very expensive to have seniors in the hospital. It's very expensive to get seniors to the hospital in ambulances and all that kind of stuff. We don't really want seniors in the hospital if people can get well better at home, so there's a need to have them at home.

How are you going to get the medical part of this covered in that, maybe working with our health minister to keep our costs down but also having people at home longer and dealing with the medical issues they're going to face?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

As you know, in the delivery of health care there are jurisdictions. That's under the provincial government. That's why in 2016 we gave billions of dollars for home care to provinces and territories to do that work, because it falls under their jurisdiction. The age well at home program is designed to find the gaps, the ones that provinces and territories perhaps.... It's to fill the gaps. We don't want to duplicate the work that is already being done.

I will turn to Annette to give a bit more depth on this, as it's something she is very well versed in. I will say that it is part of my mandate letter too, of course, to establish, working with the Minister of Health, an expert panel to provide recommendations for establishing an aging at home benefit. I'll be doing this work with the Minister of Health, and we'll have more to say in the near future.

Annette, can you talk a little about the age well at home program, please?

[Annette Gibbons, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Sure. There is home care delivered by the provinces, and federal funding supports for that as well. That's very clearly in the medical space. The age well at home program is intended to move into that space of more practical supports that are non-medical. It's very deliberate that it's complementary to what is happening at the provincial level, because there isn't as much of that at the provincial and municipal levels.

With respect to your question about volunteers, the reality is that an awful lot of organizations, not-for-profits that are active in supporting seniors, are very strongly volunteer-based. Of course, they have paid staff who lead the organization, but a lot of volunteers provide supports to seniors. We really just wanted to build on that. Seniors themselves are often volunteers in those organizations, which of course has benefits in terms of engagement in the community, combatting social isolation and so on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Benzen.

We now go to Madame Ferrada, for five minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here with us today.

I'd like to come back to the question that was put to you earlier, about the fact that the monthly Guaranteed Income Supplement benefits had been reduced for seniors who had received the Emergency Response Benefit. You have already spoken about it at some length, but I would like you to add certain details.

For example, could you specify how these individuals will be compensated? How will this work for people who received benefits outside of the 2020 tax year?

Additionally, can you say why, in fact, Bill C‑12 is so important? More specifically, what will change in terms of legislation to better protect seniors in the future?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Part of our government response has always been to support those most vulnerable seniors, and that is why we moved quickly on some of the measures that we've talked about since 2015, on restoring the age of eligibility to 65 for OAS and GIS and enhancing the GIS and CPP.

We've all been in this now for two years, but when the pandemic first hit, almost two years ago, as you know, we moved extremely quickly to provide support for Canadians, including workers, seniors, students and businesses. These programs were certainly meant to ensure that people could stay at home, stay safe and have a roof over their heads, and that they would be able to make ends meet.

We know that some seniors were part of that group that relied on these pandemic benefits to help them get through this crisis. To be clear, it's important to recognize that every year thousands of seniors get their GIS adjusted depending on their income in the previous year. Since some of these working seniors received pandemic benefits, because they needed them at the time, they had their GIS affected in 2021. I agree that they shouldn't be penalized for that.

They needed that support at that time, and I want to assure the honourable members of this committee that when I was first appointed to this role, this was the very first thing we worked on. We worked very quickly with our officials to look at all possible options. We worked with the Minister of Finance to quickly put in a major investment in the financial and economic update to fully compensate the seniors who were affected, and that work, as I mentioned, is already under way.

This is going to be an automatic one-time payment. It will support affected seniors by fully compensating them for the full loss of their GIS and allowance benefits.

To your second point, why is it so important to ensure that we move forward on Bill C-12? Bill C-12 is going to ensure that this doesn't happen again. To fully fulfill the commitment in my mandate letter, we introduced Bill C-12. It is going to simply amend the Old Age Security Act to exclude any income received under the CERB for the purposes of calculating the GIS or allowance amounts payable.

It is a very simple bill. It is a quick but significant amendment to the OAS act to ensure that seniors, particularly the most vulnerable, are not impacted again this year for the benefits they received last year. As I mentioned, I have already proactively reached out to all parties. They all agree. They have been calling for this. I really hope we can move quickly to advance this bill, because we need to get to the point where we can make sure this doesn't happen again.

Cliff or Alexis, would you like to talk a bit about why it's so important to get it in place as soon possible, so we don't have that impact again this year?

[Cliff C. Groen]

Very quickly, regarding this legislative change that is currently before the House, it is critical that it be passed by the beginning of March in order for it to not impact individual entitlements of GIS benefits, effective in July. GIS benefits are renewed every July based on the previous tax year's income, and therefore the system changes that we make always occur in March, when we shift from the previous tax year to the most recent tax year. That is why it is absolutely critical that this legislation be passed for us to be able to deliver the program with the objectives of that legislative change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Ferrada.

I will now move to Madame Chabot, for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello, Minister.

I would like to talk to you about a commitment made in your mandate letter, which is also the government's commitment, regarding the Old Age Security pension. This commitment is both a good and bad idea: the good one is to increase the Old Age Security pension; the bad one, to apply it only at age 75.

I am sure that you know that the Old Age Security pension applies at 65 years of age. As a result, in your commitment, you are discriminating against seniors based on their age. You are creating a breach in the Old Age Security program, when there is nothing to justify it.

If you are, as you say, very sensitive to seniors' financial situation, are you willing to revise your decision, so that the increase in the Old Age Security pension applies at age 65?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you for the question.

Mr. Chair, through you, I would like to tell the honourable member that from the very beginning, our government's priority has been there to support the most vulnerable seniors. The focus on older seniors and the OAS increase recognize three extremely important things, and it's important to highlight those.

The first is around the fact that seniors are living longer, which is a good thing. We also know they are more likely to be running out of their savings as they spend more years in retirement.

The second is around the fact that older seniors are statistically more likely to have low income; they're more likely to be widowed; they're more likely to have a disability. All of these come with higher costs, as we all know.

Of course, the OAS system has always had varying amounts for different groups. It's based on years of residency in Canada as well.

In particular, with our focus on targeting the most vulnerable, we worked hard to strengthen their overall income security and OAS, which they rely on in particular. Our plan, of course, delivers on that promise. It is around—

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Minister, there are people who are vulnerable at 67 years old, and others at 73. How can you justify such discrimination?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

What I will tell the honourable member is that the plan we have, as we know, was a commitment in 2019, also, to increase the OAS by 10% for seniors 75 and older. We kept that promise, and we will be delivering on that this summer.

I also want to allude to another commitment in my mandate letter. It is around increasing the guaranteed income supplement by $500 for single seniors and $750 for couples, starting at the age of 65. That is a priority for me, and I'm going to make sure I move forward and deliver on that commitment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madame Chabot.

We will now move to Madam Zarrillo, for two and a half minutes, to end this hour.

Madam Zarrillo, you have the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just have to come back to this vital, proactive tool to protect the well-being and dignity of seniors, going forward. That is a national seniors strategy.

I would ask through the chair to the minister, when can Canadians see a national seniors strategy in the budget, and does the minister agree that there is a need for it with all the learnings that have come from COVID-19?

[Kamal Khera, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I alluded to this question earlier. I will say that we've seen the reality in this pandemic that many seniors have faced, and the vulnerabilities that exist.

The work we have been able to do, whether it is around strengthening financial security for seniors—I'm looking at my mandate letter— whether it is the increase of the guaranteed income supplement by $500 for single seniors and $750 for couples, whether it is looking at how we get more seniors to continue to live longer in their own communities, whether it is our commitments to our age well at home program, or, of course, whether it is creating an expert panel to provide recommendations for an aging at home benefit or around the fact that we need to ensure that those living and working in the long-term care homes have the supports they need....

Of course, when it comes to the national seniors strategy, this is something I know the committee has looked at. I know the National Seniors Council is able to provide advice on whether this seniors strategy could be useful in our government's attention to seniors' well-being.

I certainly look forward to working with all members in this House to make sure that we continue to find different ways to support seniors. That is a priority for me, and I look forward to building that and having continued discussions with this committee and, of course, with all members in this place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You can ask a short question, Madam Zarrillo, to end if you want.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

My final question will be about the gender lens and gender-based analysis when dealing with seniors.

We know we over-index for women seniors. We also know that LGBTQ+ seniors are often missed in the supports that come out, so I want to get an understanding of this expert panel and what the gender lens will look like.