Evidence of meeting #13 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was job.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Director of Canadian Training, United Association Canada
That varies in different parts of the country. I would suggest that trades that need the mobility of our workforce could be impacted, but we maintain.... Maybe I should preface it with this. There's no shortage within our organization because of our joint apprenticeship committee, which aligns and gives us foresight of future industry needs based on job bids and forecasted projects in the public and private sectors so that our contractor and employer partners let us know their needs. We bring on apprentices accordingly, not just reactively but proactively. Therefore, we don't see the same shortages that are outside of our walls.
That being said, we've heard about shortages and surpluses in various facets of our trades outside of our walls. I'm just not equipped to speak on those because of our planning.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Obviously, apprentice retention is an issue, which we also see in the electrical industry, as well as completion rates.
What do you think are the biggest barriers for an apprentice to finishing their program, finishing their apprenticeship and getting their Red Seal?
Director of Canadian Training, United Association Canada
Those barriers would be getting the right information up front, knowing what they're actually getting into and being pointed toward accurate, good resources.
In my presentation, I mentioned pre-entry programs. Some of these things can be great programs, but when they're placed as a kind of cost of entry into apprenticeship, they get used almost as adult day care centres, for lack of a better term. They put people through because they don't have anything else to do. The people who start are kind of experimenting and they don't see their way through the apprenticeship.
The other thing I would mention is the wraparound supports. We have the highest completion rates in our industry for the pipe trades, exceeding 90% completion for anybody who starts an apprenticeship with us. That is by no mistake. The average rate of completion outside of our walls, which includes us actually, is in the 50th percentile. Including our numbers, that's very dismal. It speaks to the value of the wraparound supports that we have created and to the fact that we keep our promises.
Every person who enters our programs through a pre-entry program, as long as they make it to the end of the training—and it's no harm if they don't; maybe they figured out along the way that it's not for them—becomes a registered apprentice immediately, if not at the start of our programs. We have, again, an over 95% success rate of registration of apprentices for pre-entry. We have to keep our promises at every level.
I would be remiss not to mention the funding disparity at the jurisdictional level for attending a trade school. We have a backlog of people trying to attend trade schools in a timely fashion. We have public colleges that cancel classes on apprentices. When they take time off work and go on EI to be able to tell their employer that they'll look to return after they attend basic, intermediate, advanced, or whatever level of training they're in, and when the school shuts things down because it doesn't have the adequate numbers to be profitable or to cover its expenses, that's detrimental to the system. It's an irresponsibility. We have never done that in the UA. In fact, we offer to deliver that training for free.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Do you see value in supporting apprenticeship mobility, essentially standardizing training from province to province and in allowing apprentices to be more mobile?
Director of Canadian Training, United Association Canada
I would say there's not only a value but also a danger.
The value is that, currently, we know we have apprentices who will travel from province to province. If the apprenticeship levels of in-class training don't align in the order—and you may have the general content across the board covered—then I could complete two sessions of trade school and travel to another jurisdiction just to find out that the orders are so out of whack that I have to start again. That is a setback for somebody looking to travel. It definitely would provide an advantage that we've been seeking to harmonize for years under the Red Seal, but we've had great success in just the overall frameworks of the recognition of the outcomes of all training.
I would suggest that when an apprentice is in their home province, they get to know the landscape a bit better. The danger comes when they travel, and they're inherently a little displaced. They don't have the same supports and the confidence going through the system that they have in their home province, so there's a bit of confusion. That's where, again for us, it's a bit different in that we have that collaboration from local to local across the country to be able to provide those wraparound supports and to ensure comfort and stability.
Conservative
Colin Reynolds Conservative Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Do you think if they were able to move from province to province and find work in a particular jurisdiction, the workflow may then slow down? Would they be able to work in another province to get their hours and then come home to go to school or to get more stable work by being more mobile?
Director of Canadian Training, United Association Canada
That is ideally a great way to look at things.
The other part of this is, even in our own framework, when you're an apprentice, you're essentially not identified by the occupational health and safety act as a competent person. You're actually working toward competency. When you're navigating as an apprentice, you're seeking mentors, who are your journeypersons. Those relationships ensure your safety.
Travelling from province to province does present a bit of a danger, I would say, for apprentices, depending on what level they are. Again, in an ideal situation, yes, they could, if we were to have the right protections in place. I'd just say that one has to go hand in hand with the other to look after apprentices if they're going to travel.
When I'm speaking on it, I'm not looking at it just from a union context. If I'm looking at it from a non-union context, those wraparound supports aren't there. I'm just a bit more worried about those scenarios.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Gordon.
Ms. Desrochers, you have the floor for six minutes.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both of you for joining us today to bring your testimonies.
Mr. Binger, first, thank you, really, for your testimony today, for your resilience through your experience, and also for continuing to bring those issues to light, making sure that those are part of the conversation. It's very important.
I work a lot on housing and homelessness. I think that the issues of youth aging out of the foster care system are some that we are definitely starting to focus on a lot more, and we'll be doing that in the coming months. I'd love to reach back to you after this, as well.
Can you talk a little bit about, in your experience, the partnership between the federal programs that are currently in place, like the youth employment and skills strategy, and those local organizations? How do those work together to ensure that youth, especially vulnerable youth, have continuous support as they enter the job market? How do you see that? Is there more that maybe not the federal government but maybe together we can do?
Care Advocate and Graduate Student, Counselling Psychology, As an Individual
I'm not aware of any federal supports. Child welfare tends to be provincially mandated. It's usually run by the province.
I don't see too many programs. We've done a lot of equity, diversity and inclusion policies, but people from care tend to be excluded from those.
This also goes into post-secondary education as well, where we're starting to bring out new resources and supports for different minority communities. However, again, people from care seem to be excluded. Even if we look at the post-secondary rates of people from care, we see that some reports estimate that about 0.8% of people from foster care will get a post-secondary degree, and it's about half of that, 0.4%, with regard to people from group homes.
I'll clarify, as well, that it's not just foster care that needs a focus. I think that group and residential care as well are significantly under-represented.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you for that.
Understanding that not all is, as you pointed out, federal jurisdiction, what would be some of the solutions? Understanding that that's a very wide question—there's probably a lot missing—what would be the one thing that you think could help bring additional support?
Care Advocate and Graduate Student, Counselling Psychology, As an Individual
I don't think there's just one answer to this. I think there's a plethora of issues that are contributing to the youth employment issue—for example, the lack of a regulatory body. We have dentists regulated for working on teeth, but we don't hold people who are working with vulnerable youth who have been abandoned by their families or are dealing with a lot of trauma or sexual abuse to the same accountability. Even with regard to human trafficking, some reports estimate that [Technical difficulty—Editor].
Care Advocate and Graduate Student, Counselling Psychology, As an Individual
I think the lack of a regulatory body, the privatization system [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I think it contributes to a system where a lot of the focus is on profit [Technical difficulty—Editor] the outcomes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Mr. Binger, we're losing you from time to time. I know your testimony is going to be important to the committee.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
I'll ask a question. I'll go to Mr. Gordon, and then maybe we can come back.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
We'll check with the technicians and come back to you, Mr. Binger.
Liberal
Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Gordon, you talked about the issue of supply a little bit. There are areas in which there is a shortage, and there are areas in which there is an oversupply. There's a lack of supply, and there's oversupply.
I think you're very well positioned to tell us a little bit about this. I'm wondering whether you are starting to see an increase in the interest. With everything the government has been putting out with respect to the signal we've been sending and with respect to major infrastructure projects—Build Canada Homes and doubling the rate of construction—do you think that those are the right signals to send?
What else can we do to support organizations such as yours that work with apprentices to ensure that we have the work [Technical difficulty—Editor] for what we're needing in order to fulfill those pledges?
Director of Canadian Training, United Association Canada
That's a great question.
I think it's to give the good information to the potential candidates. I mentioned in my presentation Skills Canada. That's where they have the competitions across the country. Those who advance beyond there go to WorldSkills.
This happens in every province and territory upwards from Skills Canada. It's a good place to showcase and a good place to make announcements where people are listening. I'm talking about the people who are listening being not just the competitors. They're quite busy competing at the time. They know they're being recognized. I'm talking about how we have busloads of potential apprentices come through these facilities. It is continuously outgrowing.... There are only a few provinces that can host this event, it's that large. Having that context and having the attendees, with guidance counsellors and whatnot, inside there....
I think we need the right messaging to get out there. I always go back to the same thing. We need to give appropriate expectations. These are skilled trades. That means we need math and sciences, and that these align at the academic level with successful outcomes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Gordon. We're way over time.
Thank you, Ms. Desrochers.
Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We couldn't hear Mr. Binger earlier. I was wondering whether the connection issue had been resolved. I had wanted to ask him some questions. I'm told yes. Great.
I want to thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee today.
As I was saying, I have some questions for you, Mr. Binger.
The point has been made several times that the committee meets with young people, but perhaps not often enough. After all, this issue directly affects them.
We've talked about many extrinsic factors. These factors are outside the control of young people and may cause them to face barriers when looking for work. This is one reason for unemployment. That said, it would be worth learning about other factors that you believe contribute to youth unemployment. You referred to a number of reasons, including socio-economic factors. If you could elaborate on these factors, it would enhance our study. Yes, the economic situation is a factor. However, many other areas require attention to ensure that young people don't end up unemployed when they're able to work.
Care Advocate and Graduate Student, Counselling Psychology, As an Individual
Again, I think it's a multi-faceted approach. I think the lack of a regulatory body creates different standards of qualifications for staff. Even for people who are working in the group home system, without regulatory bodies, we aren't having standardized support.
I think the system itself isn't designed to produce better outcomes. Even the mandate of the Child, Youth and Family Services Act, in my interpretation, is based more on protection rather than on mental health. I think one of the major—
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC
Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Binger. I would just like some clarification. You're talking specifically about child welfare services in Ontario, right?