Human Resources Committee on Nov. 4th, 2025

[Michael Gordon]

Thank you for your question.

You mentioned a lot of things that have to do with technology and displacing people from employment opportunities—especially young folks, but any folks—who are looking to begin an apprenticeship and move forward. The key here is that we keep our promises. I'll start with that.

Technology isn't something that has decimated jobs for us. We've actually embraced technology. It's created more opportunities. You know, there are so many use cases where we've just become more efficient in terms of work. Maybe there are fewer folks on each job site, but there are more job sites. That's because there's more investment. Things cost less to pursue in terms of public and private sector investments when you can do it with efficiencies and coordination through 3-D and 4-D scanning and renderings and utilizing things like that.

There's also being able to provide supports that weren't always available in the context we have now. You can have augmented and virtual reality and things like that to assist but not to replace person-to-person mentorship. I'll just say that it's actually providing [Technical difficulty—Editor]. There's a disparity. You have the risk that the person who is not getting into a good-paying job and career is being told that they are a “helper”. There's no such thing as a helper when we're talking about the building trades. We're talking about an apprenticeship. If you're a helper, that means you're not getting any of your hours counted or tracked. You're under the radar.

An apprenticeship is a requirement in the trades that we represent [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Having people not registered and not tracking their hours, you're doing them a disservice. That's the problem that needs to be policed, and maybe better policed, with enforcement when employers don't follow those practices. At the end of the day, it's a race to the bottom for different employers. If you're competing contractor to contractor, one person is using a bunch of helpers and one is actually guiding and mentoring people to become highly proficient in the trade they represent.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I have another question for you, Mr. Gordon.

Do I have 30 seconds or one minute left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You actually have five seconds left, Mr. Joseph, so you might as well say that your time is up.

[Natilien Joseph, Liberal, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Joseph.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The witnesses have already touched on a number of topics. I would simply like them to give their main recommendations to the committee.

[David Binger]

There should be a federal oversight board or some type of regulatory board that would oversee all provinces on at least how they're standardizing care. Obviously, there will be nuances between provinces, but I don't think geographical location should dictate the supports available for youth. Youth in care in Ontario should be able to get the same amount of supports, although a little bit different, obviously, depending on cultural and provincial location. I think having some type of standardized approach to care from the federal government would help regulate—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Could you focus your answer more on youth unemployment, please?

[David Binger]

This kind of relates to it. A lot of the people from care are having a lot of different issues. If we're not going to be able to focus on those, then we won't be able to get them into the job market.

[Michael Gordon]

Would you like a reply from me as well?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Michael Gordon]

Thank you.

I would suggest a few things as top of the mark. One would be UTIP. I'm glad to hear the announcement of reinforcing UTIP with $75 million of injected funding to maintain it for what it's meant to be.

Public colleges already receive funding through various chains. There's never been funding at this scale of a similar nature for unions, which have really formed the true structure for trades training in Canada. Maintain it for what it is. Keep us at the forefront of UTIP, the union training and innovation program. Reinstate apprenticeship grants. We need this. It's been held across the board. All trades are asking for this. Track pre-apprentices who participate in pre-entry programs that are funded federally or provincially in the same way we track apprentices, so we can actually analyze outcomes and reward funding accordingly to those programs, or remove funding accordingly in the future.

Finally, regulate and align microcredentials with the trades. If it has an impact on an existing trade in state make it compulsory that there's a prerequisite that you are either a registered apprentice or a journeyperson, or you're displacing people from the trades.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Falk has five minutes, and then we'll conclude with Ms. Koutrakis.

Madam Falk, you have five minutes.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I would like to thank both the witnesses for their testimony today.

Mr. Gordon, we heard earlier testimony in this study that only 30% of women who begin apprenticeship programs complete them compared to 45% of men and that overall completion rates remain low across all the trades. What are some of the main barriers that prevent young people from entering or completing the apprenticeship program? I want to note that you talked about wraparound supports. Do those affect the completion rate, and what are those looking like?

[Michael Gordon]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to that.

For wraparound supports, we have maternal and paternal. The UA is the first construction union in Canada to put forward maternal and paternal benefits for our members, which are paid out of the UA to look after our members when they're going through a pregnancy. We heard stories of women. Speaking specifically of why the completion rates were less in the past, there were women who were hiding their pregnancy because they were afraid of being laid off. What a horrible experience it would be to have to do that when you can, in other walks of life, take maternal leave. These things were essential. Child care is a massive one that we're trying to fight for and see implemented. There are opportunities to fix things. Again, the 30% and 45% markers you're giving do not reflect the UA. We're in the 90% or higher completion rate category for every trade we represent, women or men.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thank you.

I will just make note that I said we got that stuff earlier. In no way am I saying that it is reflective of your organization.

[Michael Gordon]

I understand.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Another question I have for you, Mr. Gordon, is regarding economic factors. We know that our economy is declining. We're hearing that over and over again, especially within this study, which would tell me that if our economy is declining, our productivity is low and there's just less opportunity for jobs. We have economic factors such as high taxes, complex regulations and rising business costs. Would you say that this can affect job creation and hiring in the skilled trades?

[Michael Gordon]

Investment affects job creation, whether it's in the public sector or private sector. The massive influx of projected projects that are to take place in the coming future is really something we're happy to hear about. We just want to see it actually come to fruition and be done. When we have major infrastructure, other projects follow, private investment follows. It's about opportunities.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

In my neck of the woods—I come from Saskatchewan where we border Alberta—and we have a lot of energy and agriculture. Those are our driving economic drivers within Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake.

We've seen private investment leave. Even on a national scale, we've seen this. We've seen for energy companies that the regulations and the red tape that have been placed by this Liberal government have actually chased investment down south. That would affect private investment, which ultimately.... I mean, public investment is basically tax dollars. The government is taking that, whether it's through taxation and, on a provincial level, royalties, which they then are using to put into social services, whether that's our health care, our education or those wraparound supports that Mr. Binger was talking about and are needed to help people in different situations.

Would you not agree that private investment is better than having the public tax dollars invested in these projects?

[Michael Gordon]

We need to do both. One goes hand in hand with the other in various capacities. In the world we live in, in the piping trades, we navigate according to various sectors, from low-rise residential sector housing and single-family dwellings up to high-rise massive structures, commercial, institutional...all of the above. I can tell you that, right now, private sector funding for high-rise buildings in the Toronto region is having a major decline. Again, that's going to affect jobs as well.

On injecting funding through investment, be it the private or the public sector, if we're talking about the trades that we represent, our members can shift, because their scope of practice covers the various sectors. They can shift accordingly. It's actually good for them, because they get a broader range of the scope of their trade in terms of the experience, if you're an apprentice learning a trade.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

Thanks, Mr. Gordon.

I guess my point is that if we keep taxing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Falk. We're way over the time.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK]

—the private sector and they leave, we don't have public funds to put into investment. That's all.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

We'll conclude with Ms. Koutrakis.

You have the floor for five minutes.