Evidence of meeting #16 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Hassan  Deputy Minister of Labour and Associate Deputy Minister of Employment and Social Development, Department of Employment and Social Development
Kaminsky  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Tim Perry  President, ALPA Canada, Air Line Pilots Association, International
Guénette  Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Santini  Director, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Piper  President and Business Agent, Halifax Longshoremen's Association

The Chair (Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)) Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Good afternoon, committee members.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 16 of the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. Pursuant to the motions adopted on September 18, 2025, the committee is meeting on government mandates and key priorities for the first hour, and the definition of work and the use of section 107 of the Canada Labour Code for the second hour.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. People are attending in person in the room and virtually using the Zoom application. Before we begin, I would want to confirm to the committee that those appearing virtually have been sound-tested and have been approved. As well, participants in this meeting have the option to participate in the official language of their choice. Please familiarize yourself in the room with the interpretation service. Ensure you're on the channel for the language you wish to participate in. For those appearing virtually, you can choose this by clicking on the globe icon at the bottom of your Surface. If there is an issue with interpretation, please get my attention. We will suspend while it is being corrected. I would also like to remind members to please mute your devices at this time and refrain from tapping or hitting the boom on the mic to protect our interpreters. As well, please direct all questions through me, the chair, and wait until I recognize you before you begin speaking.

Before we begin, the one housekeeping item that I wish to address is the adoption of the budget for the temporary foreign worker part of this study at $38,650. Do we have agreement? If we don't have the budget, we have no study on the temporary foreign worker program.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

That seems unusually high.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

It is $38,650. There are witnesses who chose to travel. It is what it is. Turn it down and there are no studies, which is fine with me.

An hon. member

[Inaudible—Editor]

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

It's an estimated amount.

Members, you understand that each time when you approve a study motion, there's a cost to doing it and the clerk brings back—

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK

We know that.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Yes, I know, Ms. Falk, you do and you respect that. This is the estimate that has been given to me by the clerk.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK

I have a question on that. I know that in the past we've normally received copies of these to see their breakdown. Is that just not a normal practice anymore, or were they sent out already?

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Actually, it was on my mind too when I looked at the note, because at the other committee I was sitting on, they were done. I would ask the clerk in the future to submit the draft budget to committee members before we deal with it. I had assumed it was.

Do we have agreement on the budget? Do we have approval of the budget?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Clerk, the budget has been approved.

Madame Desrochers, before we introduce the guest...?

Caroline Desrochers Liberal Trois-Rivières, QC

Yes, Mr. Chair, thank you. I just want to address the situation at the last meeting where I used language that was unparliamentary, which was uncharacteristic of me. I just want to apologize for that and retract my words.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Madame Desrochers, for recognizing that.

We will now begin with this hour. I would like to welcome the Honourable John Zerucelli, Secretary of State for Labour.

From the Department of Employment and Social Services, I understand we have a change from the deputy minister to Colette Kaminsky, senior assistant deputy minister, skills and development, and Sandra Hassan, deputy minister of labour and associate deputy minister of employment and social development.

Mr. Secretary, you have five minutes for your opening statement.

3:35 p.m.

Etobicoke North Ontario

Liberal

John Zerucelli LiberalSecretary of State (Labour)

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that there is a much more interesting committee going on, so I appreciate everyone's attendance here today.

I'd like to thank Deputy Hassan and Colette Kaminsky for being here with me today.

Our new government is on a mission to strengthen Canadian workers and to help our economy succeed, so it's an honour and a privilege for me to be here today to highlight the many actions we're taking to support this mission. This is my first time appearing before this committee. I take the responsibility of my role as Secretary of State for Labour seriously. I'm also proud to represent the riding of Etobicoke North, because there's nothing more important to me than making sure the voices and concerns of Canadian workers are heard.

My job is to listen to Canadians. During my discussions with unions, employers and workers in the past weeks and months, I've heard the same recurring concerns. Job security in the face of tariffs is top of mind. We're listening. We're working hard to reduce the impact. For those who find themselves out of work, we have a strong social safety net. We're helping workers get through job disruptions with employment insurance and the work-sharing program, and working with the provinces and territories to avoid those situations and create the fastest-growing economy in the G7.

One of the ways we're doing that is through the one Canadian economy legislation. It clears the way to eliminate federal barriers to interprovincial trade and labour mobility. We are working collaboratively with provincial and territorial governments to improve the mobility of workers in regulated occupations so that they can move more quickly and fill jobs across Canada. Yesterday I presented to the committee on internal trade with all provinces, updating on the progress of the labour mobility plan. We agreed to change the regulations to a 30-day service standard and to reduce onerous administrative burdens on labour mobility. Certainly there's more work to do, but progress has been made.

Helping Canadian workers through these turbulent times is our top priority. We're meeting this moment with strength and conviction. We're protecting our communities, empowering families and investing in Canada. We're standing up for Canada's future and for the workers who are building it every day. Our plan is to empower a new generation of Canadian workers, and budget 2025 is at the heart of our plan. While we can't control what other nations do, we are focusing on what we can control. We're going to build. We're going to build homes. We're going to build transmission lines that power AI and power the north. We're going to build ports, rails and bridges to move critical minerals. We'll build locally. We'll build nationally.

However, we can't create the strongest economy in the G7 without building Canada's skilled trades workforce. That's why we invest nearly $1 billion annually in apprenticeship supports for apprentices to make trades training more accessible. We do this through loans, project funding, tax credits and deductions, and employment insurance benefits. We are also supporting apprenticeship training, including through the union training and innovation program. In budget 2025, we've doubled the funding, with $75 million over three years. This investment will increase the quality of Red Seal apprenticeship training. It will help unlock our economic growth and make sure there are trained Canadian workers at job sites to build Canada's future.

Those job sites need to be safe and respectful for all workers, because we believe labour rights are human rights. Better working conditions go hand in hand with a strong and agile Canadian economy. We're building a future where every worker is respected, protected and empowered, but we need to better understand the challenges faced by workers. We don't pursue this just at home. We're promoting labour rights for workers with our global trading partners, with funding for such credible organizations as the International Labour Organization. We will continue to set the bar on workers' rights around the world, because every worker deserves a workplace that is fair, safe and equitable.

This is a critical time for Canadian workers. We have the programs and policies in place to help them succeed, but these aren't just policies: They're promises. They're promises to all Canadian workers that the federal government has their backs.

Thank you. I'm happy to take your questions.

The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey

Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

We will begin our six-minute round with Mr. Seeback.

Mr. Seeback.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Secretary of State, for being here.

In your mandate letter, it says, “we will bring together labour, business, and civil society to build a Canada worthy of our children and grandchildren.” In the last 14 months, your government has used section 107 eight times to order workers back to work and take away their right to strike. How do you suggest that this is bringing business and labour together?

John Zerucelli Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

The best deals are always the ones that are made at the table. Our role is to uphold balanced labour relations that protect labour rights, maintain stability for employers and serve Canadians' broader interest. I know that there's a private member's bill working its way through the House of Commons, and I'm aware that this committee is doing a study on section 107. I look forward to seeing those results.

Let me be clear. Our government strongly supports free and fair collective bargaining. The best deals are the ones at the table. The reality is that 97% of disputes in federally regulated sectors are resolved without work stoppage. That speaks to the strength of the system. However, as you know, the Canada Labour Code does contain tools that could be used in exceptional circumstances where public interest is clearly at risk.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Secretary of State, do you think that your use of section 107 is improving labour relations between those unions and businesses when you use section 107 to take away the right to strike?

John Zerucelli Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

The best deals, in our opinion, are always the ones that are at the table.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes, but that isn't my question. I asked you if you think it's improving the relationship between the union and the employer. Everybody says that the best deals are made at the table. You guys don't believe that because you're ordering people back to work.

Do you think that using section 107 to take away a worker's right to strike improves the relationship between that union and the employer?

John Zerucelli Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Again, the best deals are the ones that are at the table. Ninety-seven per cent of federally regulated disputes are resolved without a work stoppage.

I think we should highlight some examples: the Air Canada pilot dispute, Via Rail and Unifor—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I'm sorry, Secretary of State.

I asked you a pretty specific question, and you're not answering it. You're going on about something else. If you don't want to answer it, just say that you're not going to answer.

Do you think that using section 107 to order workers back to work improves labour relations? Part of your job is labour stability in this country. Do you think that using section 107 to order workers back to work improves labour stability, or does it damage the relationship between employer and the union?

John Zerucelli Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

I'm actually answering the question directly. These labour situations are dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Ninety-seven per cent of labour disputes are resolved without any intervention from the federal government, using our world-class mediation service. We have a number of examples: Air Canada pilots and their union, Via Rail and Unifor, DHL Express and Unifor, the Vancouver Terminal Elevators' Association and the Grain Workers Union—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kyle Seeback Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

We don't need a list of things that were resolved. I'm asking you whether you think it actually improves or worsens labour relations.

Since you mentioned the Air Canada pilots, I'll say that I actually have a letter from the Air Line Pilots Association to Minister Hajdu in which they say:

It is regrettable that government intervention to end labour disputes in the federal sector has now become commonplace. As a result, employers like Air Canada now expect the government to intervene and are no longer interested in bargaining in good faith. This has led to a sharp deterioration of labour relations....

Since you wouldn't answer my question on whether you think it deteriorates labour relations, will you agree or disagree with what the Air Line Pilots Association is saying about what you've done?

John Zerucelli Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

With respect to the Air Canada labour dispute, Air Canada and its flight attendants, in fact, did come to a resolution and, ultimately, agreed to a deal. Listen. No work should go unpaid. Our flight attendants provide valuable services. I know many flight attendants. We, at this committee, all fly often. They provide a valuable service. As you know—