Human Resources Committee on Oct. 29th, 2026

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You're lucky, Mr. Hetherington, as last year, when the Hunger Count 2025 report was published in Quebec, the director of a food bank in Montreal said in the newspapers that she was seeing an increase in the number of seniors. I'm not talking about the food bank in my area. I'm talking about one of the largest food banks in Montreal. The director said in an interview the morning after the Hunger Count 2025 report was released that she wanted to see an increase in seniors' pensions because there is a need. That was her first recommendation. She also pointed out that the guaranteed income supplement was no longer even sufficient. It forces a senior to live on barely $22,000 a year. Given the rising cost of housing, that's not enough.

I'll wrap up in about 10 seconds. There was also a request from people with disabilities and seniors regarding affordable housing. Again, the concept of social and community housing might be more appropriate, as the term “affordable” can mean many things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

Mr. Genuis, you have five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to both of our witnesses.

My questions will focus on Professor Charlebois.

I do want to say, Mr. Hetherington, thank you for being here, for the work you do and for your testimony. In particular, the point you made about how food inflation leads to an inflation of needs you're seeing at food banks is an important one for us to reflect on.

Professor Charlebois, you've done some work on the relationship between costs of transportation and costs of food. We're in a big country. The transportation costs feed into the costs of things that have to be transported, which you've identified as one reason why food inflation has been higher in Canada than in many other countries and why food inflation has outpaced inflation of other goods.

I wonder if you could share your perspective with the committee on the relationship between transportation costs and food costs?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Obviously, the correlation between diesel costs and food inflation is at 0.89. Knowing that the perfect correlation is 1.0, I can certainly tell you that, whenever diesel costs go up for whatever reason, it does impact food prices, which is why it's one of the factors that concern us right now.

We're in the middle of our planning for Canada's food price report, our 17th edition, which will be released on December 3. Transportation cost is probably the biggest concern we have right now, because several regions in Canada depend on trucks. We have a trucking economy so, as I mentioned in my opening statement, if energy costs remain the same as they are now, we are likely to see a bump of 0.5% to 0.7% on food inflation over the next six to 12 months, and that is significant. That represents basically about $700 to $1,000 more to spend on groceries for the average household in Canada. It is significant.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's a pretty sobering projection, that things are about to get worse.

To distill this down, diesel costs are correlated with food costs, and food cost increases mean food bank use increases. When we see higher diesel prices, we're going to see more people at the food banks as a direct result. Is that fair to say?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

I would say right now, if you look at the lower 40% of income earners in Canada, they are forced to do two things. One is that they trade down. I know in the hunger report that was released a couple of weeks ago, there is the term “working poor”. A lot of Canadians who go to food banks are working. They have one, two, sometimes three jobs. The lower 40% are forced to either trade down at the grocery store or seek help at a food bank, basically.

Food inflation is at 1.7% right now, which is actually below 2%, but that's not what matters most. What matters most is how people feel when they go to a grocery store. They've seen so much volatility over the last five years, it's impossible for them to realize or know that they could or could not afford groceries. That's really the big challenge that we have right now. That's why people are afraid, why people are concerned about food costs.

In reality—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Perhaps I could jump in with one quick question as my time wraps up.

Could you propose specifically what you want to see from the government to address diesel prices? What can we do to lower diesel prices in hopes of the consequent positive effect of lowering of food prices?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

It would be important for Parliament to consider lowering taxes on fuel outright, especially for the next 12 months, because the next 12 months will be challenging.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's a great suggestion, Professor.

Some people are chuckling here because they think this is exactly what I wanted to hear, and it is what I wanted to hear. It's what Conservatives have been proposing for a long time, which is, if diesel prices are lower, food prices are lower, which means, in particular, that people who are struggling are less likely to need to use food banks if food prices are lower, if diesel prices are lower.

It's pretty clear, Mr. Chair—

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

If I may—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I hope this has been educational for my friends across the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you. The time is up.

Mr. Villeneuve, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today.

Thank you, Mr. Charlebois. We see you everywhere in the media. It's helpful to have you with us this morning.

Mr. Hetherington, you may have touched on this briefly at the beginning, but the national school food program currently helps over 85,000 students every year. Do you have any data showing the impact on children's eating habits, health or academic success? You mentioned the need for annual studies, but do you currently have any data?

[Neil Hetherington]

We have data on cost savings for individual families. In my testimony, I referred to the need for long-term studies on student outcomes, and that is something we would be keenly interested in our research department to work with the government to provide.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

What are the main benefits observed among students from remote northern communities who participate in this program?

[Neil Hetherington]

I don't have specific data that I can provide you on that. I would refer to our colleagues over at Food Banks Canada for the northern strategy and its effects.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

The Government of Canada has invested $4.2 million. What concrete results has this investment yielded?

[Neil Hetherington]

The results we're seeing are kids being able to eat in school. It's as basic as that.

We know it is being done, at least in the Toronto and the Ontario contexts, in a universal way. It is being done without fear or concern about which family needs it and which one doesn't, so that each child does not have that sense of an undignified moment when they need to raise their hand or can't pay for that program. That's incredibly important, and it raises us to the same level of any of the other G7 nations.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

I would also like to know what your priorities would be if additional funding were available.

[Neil Hetherington]

There are four funding streams in Toronto. All three levels of government participate at various levels.

We are hopeful that the federal government will lean into the PT agreements to ensure that they adjust their contributions at the same inflationary rate changes the federal government would be making.

The City of Toronto has taken a leadership position.

The fourth funding stream has been private funding. That would be the area, at least in the Toronto context, where they have reached out from a philanthropic perspective to make that program happen. I would argue that this is probably the least desirable way to be able to fund this type of program. It fluctuates in terms of funding and, therefore, in outcomes for those children.

Setting up a tripartite...but at least with the federal-PT agreements being universal and set with standards that allow for access would be the ideal funding base.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have barely a minute and a half left. I will now turn to you, Mr. Charlebois.

You have raised a number of criticisms about the Canadian food system. If the federal government were to adopt just one of your recommendations tomorrow, which one do you think would provide the greatest benefit to Canadian consumers?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

Thank you for that question.

It would be important to properly measure the program's impact, but also to anticipate additional costs. I know that, earlier this week or last week, a witness showed that the program is already underfunded. It's important to understand that there is a lot of volatility in the markets, and that has an impact on the program's influence and effectiveness. These costs must be anticipated.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

I'll try to ask one last question if I have a bit of time, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Charlebois, you've often argued that food affordability issues are partly structural. Which of the factors you've identified fall under federal jurisdiction and which fall under provincial jurisdiction or the private sector?

[Dr. Sylvain Charlebois]

That's another good question. There is one issue that falls under the jurisdiction of both levels of government. Of course, there are interprovincial barriers, which I think are problematic. I'm in Saskatoon right now, and we're still talking about that. How can we lower interprovincial barriers? If trade among provinces was made more efficient, that could reduce food costs by $700 per year per family.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Charlebois.