Evidence of meeting #52 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK
Okay.
Have you noticed a decrease since the school food program has been introduced or has it stayed the same or increased with children accessing the food bank?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
There has been an increase in all demographics coming to the food bank.
We are starting to see some areas of positive hope through different policies that have been brought in. I'm ever hopeful that the positions and the policies that have been brought in over the last year will mean that, if I come and testify next year, I will deliver better news on the number of people in line.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK
For sure.
My last question for you is about donations. Has there been an increase or decrease in donations from Canadians? What does that look like?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
There's been an increase in individual major gifts to food banks and a decrease in those who are able to provide $100 or $200 a month. That has decreased. That speaks to a growing divide between those who have and those who do not have. There has been a decrease in individuals donating food at their local grocery store for the food banks. There has been an increase in farmers finding a positive way to provide surplus crops to food banks.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK
Thank you so much.
Mr. Charlebois, thank you again for taking the time to be here.
You spoke about purchasing power. We've heard from several witnesses so far in this study that food insecurity in Canada is not from a lack of food; it's from a lack of access to food. Would you say your research supports that?
Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely, but I think the problem is much deeper than that.
I do think Canada has a price volatility issue. What I mean by this is that if you look at G7 countries, our food prices have gone up 29% in the last five years, which is basically the average amongst G7 countries. Other countries have done worse than us. The problem is that for 17 months, from one month to another, prices have dropped and then gone up again. When that happens, you're pushing Canadians away from the periphery of the store, where products are fresh and more nutritionally desirable, and when they go to the centre of the store, they find out they can't afford to eat, basically.
The challenge we have in Canada is that we can't really stabilize food inflation over time. We do see huge ups and downs. That makes a lot of Canadians concerned about food prices in general.
Conservative
Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster—Meadow Lake, SK
Why are...?
Okay. Thank you, Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
We are over the time. Thank you.
Ms. Koutrakis, you have the floor for six minutes.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here this morning.
Mr. Hetherington, I'd like to begin my questioning with you.
At the very beginning of your testimony, you said that the program is working. I'm wondering if you could please share with us some of the measures or results. Have you heard stories? Are families or organizations sharing these stories? How do you know that this program is working?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
There are two parts. The first would be the increased accessibility to it. The second would be that we know the amount, at least in the Toronto context, that is saved per family by having these programs in place. On an annual basis, that is $900. Moving that to a universal lunch program will bring us in line with the G7 and provide a savings for families of about $1,800. That is $1,800 that our families need in order to be able to pay for food in the conventional grocery store.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Okay.
We've heard from organizations and previous witnesses, and I believe you touched on this a little in your testimony, who have highlighted the value of ensuring that children have access to nutritious meals at school. How can school food programs complement broader efforts to support families facing food insecurity?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
I think what's important is that they are one piece of the puzzle. The government has gone around and looked at the other pieces that are also required in order to support kids. That means the development of affordable housing. It means investing $13 billion in Build Canada Homes. It means there is an investment of $1.1 billion annually for the Canada disability benefit. These are the types of initiatives that deal with the long-term, systemic issues that complement the student nutrition program. These are the efforts we wish to increase.
In the testimony from Daily Bread, we mentioned moving toward a renters tax credit. We are hopeful that the government will contemplate this new initiative. Low-income families would have the opportunity to have a tax deduction for portions of the rent they pay. That would have a direct impact on the individuals in the group that's growing at the fastest rate. These are low-income, working poor Canadians. Sixty per cent of them have a university or college education; 50% of them have full-time employment, and they still have to come to a food bank. This would target that group.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Would you therefore say that a lot of the investments that the current government is making—in battling house pricing, in helping with affordability issues, in the groceries and essentials tax credit, and in all these programs we've put in place—are working in conjunction to make sure we are addressing what Canadians are facing in terms of food insecurity and affordability overall?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
I think there's much to celebrate and more to do. We're anxious to work alongside each of the parties to say that today's the day to build a better Canada. We do that through those three things: building affordable housing; making sure that people on income supports can thrive in community; and how we combat precarious employment.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
We all know there are special challenges for communities living in the north. Would you have any recommendations for how we can do better for those communities?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
I would turn to my colleagues at Food Banks Canada for recommendations on that.
Certainly, co-operative models are good. There is subsidy required. The fact that it costs $26 to purchase four litres of milk.... That is not the way it should be. We have opportunities there.
I'd be delighted to submit the report on northern gateway opportunities to provide for low-income Canadians in the north.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you.
I have two minutes.
Mr. Charlebois, would you like to add any comments to any of the questions I just asked Mr. Hetherington?
Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
Thank you for the opportunity.
First of all, I want to thank Daily Bread Food Bank for the work they're doing. I want to thank Neil. I know him. I want to salute the great work food banks in Canada are doing.
Neil often says that food banks exist due to failed policy. I would argue that there is no perfect policy, so it's always a work in progress.
For this particular program in schools, I see potential to do much better. I think Neil alluded to the fact that we need to measure what is going on. There are many governments helping children in schools. I'm not entirely convinced that we have a good sense of how impactful the program is.
The program has to exist. We're doing great work, but we need to measure its performance.
Liberal
Senior Director, Agri-Food Analytics Lab, Dalhousie University, As an Individual
You could start with the children themselves. How many children are being fed and what are they being fed? Of course, most importantly—I mentioned this in my opening statement—can we afford to feed 400,000 students? If not, how can we adjust our budget, and how can we support that initiative appropriately through local procurement?
Again, Daily Bread Food Bank has a great recommendation in terms of tax credits. That's a very powerful tool to supply schools and lessen the budgetary burden of this program, which is costing well over $1 billion already.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bobby Morrissey
Thank you, Mr. Charlebois and Ms. Koutrakis.
Ms. Larouche, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank Mr. Charlebois for joining us here to share his point of view. I also want to thank Mr. Hetherington for giving us a first-hand perspective on what is happening on the ground with food banks.
I'll start with you, Mr. Hetherington, because you answered a question from Ms. Falk about people with disabilities who were eligible for a benefit. However, yesterday at noon, people with disabilities held a gathering to call for measures to reduce poverty among their community.
This morning, Disability Without Poverty organized a breakfast. Their primary demand is that the benefit be made more adequate to meet the needs of people with disabilities. They say that $204 a month covers their needs for barely three days. In short, this budget should be increased and then an adjustment should be made that better reflects inflation.
Is that something you're seeing as well? You were talking earlier about this benefit and the specific needs of people with disabilities.
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
Thank you for the question, and for your care and concern for those who derive their income from disability benefits.
There are two areas of the Canada disability benefit that we are hopeful the government will continue to address.
The first is, as you mentioned, adequacy. Across the country at the provincial level we are providing about $1,000 less than the poverty line. We should move that towards, at minimum, the poverty line, recognizing that those living with disabilities have additional expenses. The benefit should actually be higher than that, but moving it towards that level at the very least would be ideal. That's the adequacy part.
The second is accessibility of the benefit. In the fall economic statement, the government provided an outline of how it was going to decrease barriers to accessing the benefit. We were delighted with many of the new initiatives that were in there, for people working their way through the very onerous process of the DTC in order to get that benefit.
Bloc
Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC
Thank you very much.
It is true that lifting someone out of poverty would be a goal, although we can make numbers say whatever we want. Does someone who is only a few dollars above the poverty line really live with dignity?
I'll give you an example. That's more or less what we hear from some seniors. In any case, the food banks in my area have made me more aware of this issue. I have a meeting coming up to discuss the situation of seniors in particular. Of course, these food banks also serve, in addition to people with disabilities, many people who are in the workforce, families and workers who come looking for food assistance. There are also seniors. This number has been steadily increasing for a few years—for far too long already. What food banks are saying, in particular, is that incomes are not sufficient, either. Federal benefits paid to seniors are not enough. People aged 65 to 74, for example, did not receive a 10% increase in their old age security pension, unlike those aged 75 and over.
One of the food banks' recommendations is that, at a minimum, people aged 65 to 74 should receive the same amount of benefits as those aged 75 and over.
However, that wouldn't solve everything. Again, this is a federal benefit that doesn't seem to meet needs and leaves seniors struggling. It's being said that so many seniors have been lifted out of poverty, but when they're only a few dollars above the poverty line, that's when they struggle to meet their basic needs: housing and food.
Are you also seeing this reality among seniors who come to your food bank?
Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
We've absolutely seen the difficulty among seniors that you speak about. We've also seen the hope.
On the hope, we started to see a decrease in the number of seniors accessing food banks when the guaranteed basic income came into play. While we saw a decrease there, I don't want to in any way suggest that they are able to thrive in community with the income levels they currently have. They can't. You're entirely right, so I think there's additional investment there.
Going back to what I said earlier, there are some things to celebrate with that benefit that came in. We saw it empirically with food bank usage, but there is still much to do.