Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-37.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
That's not a point of order, to begin with, and I would ask you to try to wrap up here in the next few seconds.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
I'll wrap this up very quickly.
As much as one member of this committee would like this to be different, and he comes at this issue with great passion--I have a great amount of respect for that member--the reality is that we either get this bill in as is, with no amendments, or the government could very well fall. We're all aware of that. We all watch the news. We'll get absolutely nothing. So those are the two choices.
Gentlemen, the question is quite simple: given those two choices, which one would you take?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Dominion Vice-President, Royal Canadian Legion
I would hope the honourable member would agree to get this bill passed as is. If we need to work on a second generation, let's get something on the ground first--the bill the way it is--and work on the second generation later, please.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Order, please.
Thank you.
We will go to our next round, and Mr. Telegdi.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you very much.
Gentlemen, welcome. It's great seeing you here. I think all members of Parliament, honouring what you have done, should join one of the branches of the Legion, because they are looking for members, and we have to keep things alive.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Good, and hand them out to all the members who aren't members. I'm a member of 530 in Waterloo.
Let me just say we're really having a false argument. For the government to stand up and say we have to pass this bill, that it's too difficult to change.... Look, we had two ministers who didn't even produce a bill. It was the combined efforts of the opposition that made this happen. The irresponsibility of the government not bringing it forward before is inexcusable. We could have dealt with it; this could have been legislation. So let's not play politics around it.
There's a fairly simple fix to the whole thing. The Citizenship Act is such a horrific mess. It is just a horrific mess. It's like pick-up sticks. You pull one, and if you're not careful the whole thing comes tumbling down. Mr. Davidson will deal with that. We could very quickly say that those Canadians who are born abroad, fulfilling the residency requirements of the present second generation born abroad requirements, are deemed to be born in Canada, and then we don't have to go beyond first generation.
The Council of Refugees, from whom we're going to have to hear, came out and made a submission. Essentially what they said was this, and this is an example outside of Mr. Karygiannis's.... Suppose, for example, a Canadian couple are spending a few years working abroad and give birth outside Canada to a baby. Let's call her Anna. It could actually be a soldier. She is a Canadian citizen through her parents. The family returns to Canada when Anna is six months old and she grows up in Canada. And we heard from Mr. Teichroeb, who had a similar situation. As a young adult, she chooses to study abroad and finds herself pregnant. If she gives birth to her child outside Canada, the child is not a Canadian citizen under the terms of Bill C-37.
If the baby--let's call her Mary Ann--happens to be not entitled to any other citizenship, she will be stateless. Bill C-37 does have provisions to allow Mary Ann, and others like her, to apply for Canadian citizenship if they are stateless; however, there are a number of conditions that must be met, including the requirement that the stateless child of a Canadian citizen should have resided for three or four years preceding their application. This means the child will have to remain stateless for at least three years.
This bill also fails to explain on what basis Mary Ann would be allowed to enter Canada in order to meet the three-year residency requirement. Even if Anna attempts to sponsor her child as an immigrant under family class, she will face a challenge in finding travel documents for Mary Ann so she can travel to Canada as a stateless person. She is not entitled to a passport.
We, Canada, to our shame, made the United Nations High Commission for Refugees magazine on statelessness and we're featured for some of the miserable conditions that now exist. Now, in fixing this, which is important, we do not want to create another whole class of stateless people. There is a relatively simple amendment—and I'm going to be asking Mr. Davidson when he comes forward—that can be done very quickly and that will eliminate all those problems. We can have a bill that goes through and addresses the needs of Canadians and stops us being featured in magazines like the magazine on statelessness. It's not a difficult fix, but we would be looking for it.
Again, just for the record, it has been the opposition that has consistently pushed this government. We had two ministers, both of whom said they had absolutely no interest in citizenship. I remind you of Roméo Dallaire, who appeared at a press conference, and the question was asked of him, why is this happening? And he referred to bureaucratic terrorism in the department. That's Senator Dallaire, who himself was a lost Canadian.
There is an easy fix, and it can be out of this committee this week, fixed, and it could go through the House. All we need is the political will. I don't want to create any more problems than we now have created. It can be first generation.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
No, it's not a point of order. I just want to speak.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Service Bureau Director, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
The only thing we can state, I guess, unequivocally is that when we came here and prepared for our appearance, we looked at the bill, we looked at your unanimous report, and we looked at the recommendations in the unanimous report, which said certain things. We quoted them to you and we urged you to pass Bill C-37. If a compromise is possible to amend, so be it. If a compromise is not possible, then we ask that you pass the bill. It's simple.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, gentlemen, and thank you for being with us today and giving us the benefit of your experience and all the knowledge you have gleaned from our veterans.
Like my colleague, I want to state that we intend to support this bill. We believe it is important. I have relatively little experience on the Committee, but I understand that this issue has been under review for several years now and that it has been unable to complete the different steps leading up to passage of the bill. So, we will be supporting it. This has nothing to do with politics. We believe it is important to do that for all concerned.
I read your presentation, and I have one question. We are always learning things here; that is what is great about being a Member of Parliament. As regards the second generation, you gave an example of authentic proof of attachment to Canada. An immigrant can be a member of the Canadian Forces and thus be entitled to preferential treatment. I was surprised to read that. The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act may well contain provisions I am unaware of and that I will now know more about.
In fact, the expression “preferential treatment” is rather strong, it seems to me. There may be other forms of social engagement that constitute proof of one's attachment to Canada. Some may want to enroll in the Armed Forces, but that does not necessarily suit everyone. There are people out there who are honest, highly skilled and strongly engaged in their community that can provide proof of that. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that.
4:20 p.m.
Service Bureau Director, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
The expression “preferential treatment” may not be appropriate, but what we are saying to Citizenship and Immigration Canada is that if someone is born abroad and voluntarily serves in the Canadian military, he should simply be able to apply for Canadian citizenship without going through the normal administrative processes. We think that is appropriate because the legislation is already in place. You must understand that, because we are veterans, it is natural for us to believe that this is a good way of demonstrating one's loyalty to one's new country.
4:20 p.m.
Service Bureau Director, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Yes. In fact, it's new.
4:20 p.m.
Bloc
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Mr. Komarnicki has a quick comment first, and then I'll take his time.
