Evidence of meeting #37 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.
A recording is available from Parliament.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
No, sir. As I explained, the majority of complaints investigated by the RCMP have to do with corruption or allegations of corruption in connection with the process. When an investigation into allegations of corruption is conducted, the fact that a consultant was involved in the transactions comes to light.
The RCMP receives very few complaints against the consultants themselves.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
The complaints could just as easily be against a member in good standing of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants as they could be against a consultant who is not a member of CSIC.
Is that in fact correct?
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
My next question is for Mr. Linklater. The government established the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants to standardize services which were somewhat scattered. After travelling to several locations over a three-week period, the committee has come to the realization that there are many more immigration consultants operating outside the system. I am surprised that you are still a supporter of a system that, as far as I can see, is not working.
In your conclusion, you state that you will continue to work with the provinces to find ways of tacking this issue. What options do you have? Personally, I believe very strongly in the work being done by immigration consultants. We also need to make sure that these individuals are qualified. Without question, we need to find a solution. We have studied this matter and now, we need to make some recommendations.
When you say we need to continue working with the provinces, is that because you believe that they can help you improve the system? Do you think, as do the lawyers experienced in dealing with immigration matters arising from this part of the act, that this responsibility should be relegated to the provinces which are responsible for monitoring all professions?
There are about thirty different professions in Quebec. Not all of them are of equal importance, but each one is monitored by the Office des professions du Québec. Is that one possible solution that could flow from your talks with the provinces?
Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Thank you for your questions.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond to the first question concerning representatives that are not members of the CSIC or of another organization.
It's very difficult, as I said in my opening remarks, for CIC to be able to monitor with our partners the activities of so-called ghost consultants who may be providing a service for a fee. For example, if these individuals are providing a benefit that allows the individual in question to receive an immigration visa or a work permit or a study permit and we aren't told that these services were used, it's very unlikely that anyone who receives a benefit is going to complain for having used those services.
Where a lot of this activity takes place overseas--I've mentioned it and my colleagues from the RCMP have also mentioned it--it's very difficult for Canadian authorities to cooperate and collaborate to seek assistance from local authorities for prosecutions or even for investigations, given that for the most part these types of activities are not illegal in other countries where they take place.
As for your second question, I would say that it is up to the provinces to regulate professions.
CIC, through the regulations, with our partners, has indicated that we are authorized with these regulations only to deal with representatives who are members of the three associations who appear before the department or in any proceedings before the minister. So that covers CIC and the IRB as well as CBSA.
Again provinces have a role. Provinces in the last couple of years have been taking a more active interest in becoming engaged. Manitoba, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, has recently tabled legislation to take a more active role in licensing recruiters. Those who do not have a Manitoba licence would not be authorized to bring workers to Manitoba. Most other provinces require that recruiters, if they are providing an immigration service--preparing documentation and that sort of thing for applications--also be members of CSIC or the provincial bar or the Chambre des notaires.
In terms of collaboration, more can be done. Certainly as we look at this issue in more depth we will want to engage the provinces to ensure that they have the willingness to work with us. Ultimately it will require each province to signal an interest in moving forward with us to deal with this problem.
Bloc
Robert Carrier Bloc Alfred-Pellan, QC
Be that as it may, you believe the current system works, despite the improvements that could be made. The fact remains that the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants does not report to anyone at this time. Several problems related to governance were brought to our attention during our round of consultations.
In my opinion, the department has not made an effort to promote better implementation of the act's provisions from a governance standpoint. That is what is missing, to my mind.
Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
CSIC is an independent, arm's-length body. It operates independently of CIC, as do the law societies and la Chambre des notaires. CIC has no role in the governance of CSIC; it is guided by the Corporations Act as a registered non-profit corporation.
Conservative
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair. It's good to be back. It's good to be here for hearings on an issue that I originally raised with the committee back when I was still a member. It's great to see that this work is continuing, and I appreciate the time the committee members are putting in on this.
With regard to the presentations today, Mr. Linklater, one of the things you stressed in your presentation was the need for better information and better education. You said that changes were going to be made to websites and information and distribution and that kind of thing. When will that be operational?
Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
As we work forward through this, we have already posted on the CIC website updated information on the use of consultants and how clients should be guided in that selection. We are also looking at developing a series of posters and advertisements to be put on our mission websites, working with Foreign Affairs and our offices overseas. We've just initiated the work to translate this information into ten other languages beyond English and French, and we would hope to have this available in the next couple of months for distribution overseas.
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
It will be on the websites of the missions overseas in the next couple of months.
Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Monsieur Guilbault, you mentioned on page 3 of your presentation that the IRB “believes immigration consultants can contribute to providing quality representation”, but you mention that “the Board has had some ongoing concerns with the conduct of some immigration consultants”.
Can you expand on what those concerns specifically were, or do they relate to the measures that you have already put in place?
Senior General Counsel, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
They relate to the competence of the authorized representatives. I would like to put forward the idea that it's not enough to be an authorized representative. You can be an authorized representative and not necessarily be competent. The board still has to make sure that the claimant or appellant is represented by a competent authorized representative. So it goes not only to whether the person who represents a claimant or an appellant is an authorized representative, but because it can go to natural justice and can be grounds to seek a reopening, we look beyond whether a person is merely an authorized representative, a member of the bar, a member of CSIC, or is acting genuinely pro bono. We also have to look at the conduct of competent representatives when they appear before us.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Would you keep separate records on representatives that you have had problems with and have identified as being incompetent in the past?
Senior General Counsel, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
We don't keep separate records, but if an issue is raised, if a member says he has a concern about something or if a counsel's conduct is unacceptable--it could be a member of CSIC or a member of the bar--we would put forward a complaint to the relevant authority, be it CSIC or the bar, and let them deal with their members, because they are the competent authorities to regulate the person appearing for them.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Monsieur Meunier, you mentioned that the CRA has risk assessment systems in place, which is interesting to me. Does that include assessment of people who act as tax preparers and who do tax preparation for individual Canadians? Is that part of the risk assessment you're talking about?
Director General, Enforcement and Disclosures Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Yes, it is. As you speak of tax preparers, yes, that is a category we examine.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Can you tell me what that looks like in terms of how you would do that assessment and that risk assessment of those folks?
Director General, Enforcement and Disclosures Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Well, typically when issues arise and we have concerns with respect to non-compliance with tax statutes by a particular group--and in this case we've had, over the years, some focus on unscrupulous tax preparers because they've emerged, if you wish, as a concern, and there have been more cases where we were involved in criminal investigations into this particular group--then obviously we start paying a lot more attention and try to identify more instances through our systems whereby we might enhance our checks right at the assessing function, when returns are prepared and sent to our tax centres. We have initiated some additional checks just to make sure the unscrupulous ones aren't coming through and that the tax returns of their clients are in compliance. So we would enhance the number of checks and identify those. And of course, if there are instances where we identify, for instance, false receipts in those returns, then they're referred for assessment for potential criminal investigation.
It does happen at the front end, where we identify them, and then we start focusing on them and collecting some intelligence as to where across the country this is happening.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Linklater, and maybe Mr. Sloan, is there any similar process within CIC or CBSA that would follow up on problems that are identified at your end, for instance, with people who've done an improper application process?
Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
When instances of irregularities, if I can put it that way, come to our attention, we will refer them to CBSA for investigation or to the RCMP, depending on the nature of the infraction, whether it would be IRPA or Criminal Code.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Has CIC ever done an assessment of the costs of bad advice in the system?
