Evidence of meeting #45 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ircc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
That basically summed it up. That's really what I wanted to know.
Essentially, it comes down to having real-time updates that are accessible to the applicant rather than to me as a member of Parliament who has to be the one who phones in on a hotline, waits on the phone, and then is able to get an answer.
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
Why are we paying millions and millions of taxpayer dollars to invent an IT system, a website system, that is already fully functioning in a sister department? Why?
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you also to our witnesses.
This follows in that vein, because I was asking the previous panel that question in terms of access with a security code or a password of some type for people to get the updated information. I gather from both of you that this would be a very useful tool. I certainly think it would be.
One of the witnesses prior to this raised the point about non-Canadians accessing this information. I am not a tech expert and I'm not sure whether this is a real issue because, obviously, there are people who are permanent residents who are not Canadian who would need to access this information. If we're going to go down this road, this would be refugee claimants who are neither permanent residents nor Canadians accessing this information.
Can you briefly comment on this for me?
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
In all likelihood, with due respect to the former witness, it is intense appearing before the committee, and people may misspeak.
The Income Tax Act requires citizens, non-citizens, permanent residents, and foreign nationals to report income based on their personal circumstance, so there's no restriction or requirement whatsoever regarding citizenship and CRA reporting.
NDP
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Okay. That's one key recommendation that would come forward. I think I interpret that correctly in terms of moving forward to advance this issue.
On the more complex issue of language—and I don't mean language by way of plain language, but language by way of language itself—there are folks who, in English or French, may not be as conversant, because it's not their first language and because we're dealing with immigration, so there are lots of different languages.
Mr. Kurland, what suggestions do you have for the government to solve this puzzle in terms of access to information?
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
The problem will remain with our country for as long as our country is a free, open, democratic society where we allow travellers and individuals to live freely. Some will speak English or French and some will not.
How to deliver the service? Our institutions have developed ancillary service providers. We provide funding for community service clinics, and there are a host of religious organizations. There's no end to the good-spirited volunteers in this country to assist precisely the group that may be in need of some language assistance.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Is there anything else to add?
No? Thank you.
I want to go back to touch on processing fees just for a minute, and I have another question to go back to about immigration centres being closed.
Mr. Kurland, did I interpret you correctly as suggesting that fees should be increased?
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
I don't think fees should be increased. I suspect that the dividends from information technology over the many years and the operational adjustments over many years have resulted in lower costs to deliver visas. It's rather incredible that no one has taken the time to re-examine why we're charging what we're charging.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much for that clarification. I was quite worried when I wasn't quite sure what you were saying. It's good to know that you're not advocating for an increased fee but for a reduced fee because of the efficiencies.
On immigration centres, you're absolutely right about the implications: after they closed, both individuals making applications and MPs' offices were severely impacted. On that note, would you suggest that the government entertain re-opening these centres?
December 13th, 2016 / 5:05 p.m.
Counsel, McInnes Cooper, As an Individual
Can I speak to that? I don't know whether it's even in the realm of possibility for the government, but I would certainly encourage them to consider it, even if looking at specific locations.
We pay a lot of money to visa application centres, a third-party operator operating overseas, to assist people in navigating our system. In my view, there's no reason we couldn't look at something along those lines.
I will give you one brief story that connects with this. When I worked with Nova Scotia immigration, CIC closed and literally walled up what was previously the open centre in Halifax, and it resulted in a dramatic increase in walk-in traffic in my then office, because people had a history of coming there. To me, a new immigrant would find it very jarring to come to the place where they once came for information to find a wall. It's a bad message and an unfortunate change that occurred.
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
I'm a “no new taxes” kind of guy, so I'm not in favour of reopening these centres. However, some serious consideration should be provided to dealing with emergency cases, such as funerals, marriages, or TRV refusals that are deserving of a second kick at the can. There's nothing wrong with allowing some access to humans as a pilot project under prescribed circumstances. If it works and if the processing fees or emergency service fees are appropriate, consider expanding it.
The only way to deal with this, frankly, is to just make the executive decision. Will we hive off to the private sector a portion of processing costs? That's the core debate. Hiving off to the private sector implies a possible loss of control on the part of IRCC, but that is the nub.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
With all those efficiency savings, given that you're a no-taxes kind of guy, maybe they could be applied to immigration centres reopening, to some degree. I raise this issue because there are lots of times when people would not be able to access the information. They don't know how to navigate the system, and without a real face—somebody who can assist them—they are at a loss. That's a real issue.
Liberal
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses.
As you heard, all MPs have a heavy load of calls. What is your best recommendation for improving client services at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, including the tracking system, when clients get direct information from IRCC as always “pending” or “in process”? Instead of that, if the IRCC website had a system whereby they can provide a more detailed message.... What do you think about that?
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
There are two prongs. Here's a simple, elegant, immediate, low-cost solution: all IRCC has to do is indicate the category of permanent residence and the remaining target of the year for that category, and also publish the inventory at the same time. If it's first-come, first-served processing, the applicant merely looks at their place in the queue and the available visas for that particular year, and will understand that the target is taken in that year.
If it's a multi-year planning process—which is what we are buying into—then in subsequent years the target will be known in advance. That way, the person concerned will have a reasonable expectation of the date of visa delivery.
The alternative to that is the third rail for IRCC. It is for the committee to recommend the introduction of the User Fees Act to cover IRCC. That act requires the publication of a processing period when you pay money for a government service. IRCC is exempted from the application of the User Fees Act.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
What do you think about a TRV visa application being refused with just one error? Then they have to apply again and then they have to pay the fee again. What do you think about that?
Lawyer and Policy Analyst, As an Individual
It's case by case. I live with that hardship daily. Sometimes in order to access a decision-maker, I spend $50 on a judicial stamp to open a Federal Court case in order to have access to the Department of Justice counsel, who then liaises directly with the client, and between us we resolve the TRV situation.
It shouldn't be that way.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
On December 7, 2016, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada announced a package of changes in our family class sponsorship application, including a shorter application guide in simple language. In your opinion, what is the impact of such changes on client services? Mr. Nurse, you can give the answer.
Counsel, McInnes Cooper, As an Individual
I think that announcement is positive. I think that shortening the guide is certainly useful, and looking at the language again is useful. For in-Canada applications, it's a processing time issue, which you would be well aware of. There's a commitment, I believe, to shorten the average processing of the in-Canada applications from 24 to 12 months, and a dedication of more money and resources to that. I'm cautiously optimistic that will be positive.
There's only one thing I would add. I would encourage IRCC to continue the open work permit program for spouses, because that has alleviated a lot of the financial pressure for spouses who were previously unable to work in Canada while this lengthy process went on.
I still believe that people will need legal advice and consultant advice to navigate the system. Coming to it as a first-timer, even if it's 75 instead 194 pages, is still daunting.
However, overall I would say those improvements are positive.
