Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call the meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number five of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either “floor”, “English” or “French”. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

Please follow all the health guidelines and the protocols.

I wanted to bring a few things to members' notice before we begin hearing from the witnesses. First of all, I'll remind you that the deadline for the prioritized witness list for the study of the differential outcomes is Friday, February 18. All parties should submit witness lists to the clerk by Friday, February 18.

Second, I'll remind all participants, including members, that a hard-wired connection rather than Wi-Fi is preferred for all the committee meetings. Please ensure that your CPU is not overburdened and not many tabs are open. If you can, please try to use a hard-wired connection rather than a Wi-Fi connection.

In regard to the minister's appearances next week, on Tuesday the minister will provide a briefing on current and projected processing timelines and acceptance rates. That's the meeting we will have on Tuesday.

Is it the will of the committee to allocate 10 minutes for the minister to provide opening remarks for this important briefing? It would be just the minister giving opening remarks. Are there any comments from the members?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I think the standard has been five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

They have requested it because the minister would like to go through a few things in his opening remarks. If members are okay, we can do that.

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I feel we should keep it at five minutes. If the Minister wants to elaborate further on various things, he can do it when we ask him questions. If we give him 10 minutes, that will take away from our own time to ask questions. So I'd prefer that we stick to five minutes.

In any case, when we ask him questions, he can go into whatever details he wishes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

I'm sorry, Mr. Seeback. Were you saying something? Did I cut you off?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's okay.

I agree with Mr. Duceppe. This should be five minutes to allow for more questions. I think it's a more productive use of the committee's time for members to be able to ask questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Seeback.

Go ahead, Madam Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair. I'll elaborate on MP Seeback's comments.

I would invite the minister to provide his opening remarks to us, so that if more than five minutes are needed for what he has to say, we would have that in advance anyway. He can shorten his remarks to be within the five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Falk.

Go ahead, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would concur with those who express the view that we should stay within the five minutes for the minister, and as well for the question-and-answer component. Hopefully we can also, as best as we can, have the minister's and officials' responses adhere to approximately the same length of time that was used to pose the question.

As committee members, as you can imagine, we only get those very limited opportunities to ask questions of the ministers and officials. If the answers are long and drawn-out, it means we won't have the opportunity to follow up with additional questions. I think it's really important that we stick with the time and also adhere, as best we can, to approximately the same time for the answer as for the question that was posed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Go ahead, Ms. Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

This is just for my own understanding of this conversation. We're asking the minister to have five minutes less because we want to have more time for asking questions.

Ultimately, what I want to propose is this: Could we invite him to stay five minutes more?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

Go ahead, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What I'm seeing right now is we're wasting time that we should be spending with the witnesses, who have taken the time to appear before us today. I believe the majority of committee members have asked that the Minister's remarks be limited to five minutes. That's pretty clear. I would stop the discussion there. If we have to take it to a vote, so be it, it will be resolved quickly, but we have witnesses with us today who want to contribute to this important study.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Based on the discussion, I think the majority of the members are in favour of five minutes for the opening remarks. I'll have a discussion with the clerk. We will try to see the best way to accommodate that.

I have one last point before we go to our witnesses. The minister has also confirmed that he's available to appear on the estimates on Thursday, March 3, 2022. I will work with Madam Clerk. Before the next meeting, we will give an overview of the calendar to all members.

With that, I would like to resume our study on the recruitment and acceptance rate of foreign students.

It is my pleasure to welcome the witnesses and to thank them for appearing before the committee today.

In this panel we have Madame Carole St. Laurent, associate vice-president, international, Kwantlen Polytechnic University; Mr. Paulin Mulatris, professor, Université de l’Ontario français; and Madam Pirita Mattola, manager, International Student and Study Abroad Centre, University of Saskatchewan.

Just for the benefit of the witnesses, before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like a regular committee meeting. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

The witnesses will all have five minutes for their opening remarks. I will be showing colour cards—a beige card for a one-minute warning and a 30-second warning, and a red card showing that your time is up. Please try to see these cards on the screen. This is for the benefit of all the members as well as all the witnesses.

Once again, I would like to welcome our witnesses. We will begin our discussion with five minutes for opening remarks, followed by rounds of questioning.

We will start with Madame Carole St. Laurent, associate vice-president, international, from Kwantlen Polytechnic University.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please begin.

[Carole St. Laurent, Associate Vice-President, International, Kwantlen Polytechnic University]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm not sure exactly what was expected, but I can speak to our international student population at Kwantlen Polytechnic University.

We are a university of approximately 20,000 students, about 6,000 of whom are international students coming from 60-some different countries. They're very important to our institution and very important to our entire community in the Lower Mainland.

During the COVID period in particular, we noticed significant delays in study permit approvals, which put institutions at risk in their sustainable enrolment planning. Of course, this really affected the plans of the students to come to Canada. Some took the risk and started their studies in their home country without a study permit approval, and thanks to all the changes that occurred this year, the flexibility within that portfolio was very much appreciated by all institutions. We're hoping to see that a version of it is going to continue.

What I'm referring to in particular is the post-graduation work permit program and the flexibility that was brought to that particular program so that students are able to study more than 50% of their program outside of Canada.

I will leave it at that for my opening remarks. We're hoping that these changes will continue in the future given. I will point out the importance of the international student population to the community in western Canada, particularly in Vancouver and the Lower Mainland area.

Thank you for this opportunity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will proceed to our next witness, Mr. Paulin Mulatris.

Mr. Mulatris, the floor is yours. Please begin. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Paulin Mulatris, Professor, Université de l'Ontario français]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank all the committee members.

This issue is very important to me because of its ramifications in terms of Canada's linguistic duality, francophone post-secondary institutions in minority settings, and fair and equal access to education for francophones. In my opinion, all of these factors contribute to establishing Canada's role in building an inclusive society, both at home and abroad.

To give you a sense of the numbers at the Université de l'Ontario français (UOF), this year, our refusal rate for study permits was 65% to 70%. That includes the 30% of applications left unanswered.

In the vast majority of cases, the primary reason for refusal was that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) is not convinced that the student will return to their country once they have completed their studies. To me, the primary reason for refusal raises the question of dual intent, but also judgment of intentions. Study permit applications are treated like immigration applications. This begs the question, are decisions based on immigration criteria, academic performance, or financial conditions being met?

If these applications are treated as immigration cases, then two reports by the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne should been taken into account, because this has to do with strengthening the French fact in Canada. I can talk more about that in the question period. French-speaking Africa has the largest pool of francophones in the world, with 70% of francophones. All the studies confirm that. So we're talking about fairness with respect to linguistic duality considerations here.

The second most frequent reason for refusal is lack of financial guarantees. However, in most cases, applicants provide bank guarantees, shares or deeds, for example, and sometimes they pay part of their tuition fees upfront. There seems to be a disparity here in the criteria related to student provenance. Compared to students who come from China or India, French-speaking Africa is seen or perceived as a continent that yields poor students, so they are seen to represent a risk to Canadian society.

If immigration legislation has evolved, we have to wonder if the criteria for granting study permits contain traces of social, economic or racial exclusion factors, which were prevailing principles prior to 1967 in immigration legislation. So it's very important that we reflect on this issue.

I'd also like to point out a disparity to some extent in terms of the distribution of application processing centres. For example, all applicants from French-speaking sub-Saharan Africa are directed to the processing centre in Dakar. That centre serves a vast area that includes twenty-odd countries with very young populations. This inevitably results in bottlenecks, and it probably leads to biases in processing applications, as well as automatic refusals with no proper, consistent analysis of applications and significant processing delays. Statistics on the number of students granted study permits show that, even among French-speaking African countries, not everyone from any of those countries has the same chance of being accepted.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Stephanie Bond]

I apologize for interrupting. This is the clerk in the room.

I'm sorry, but we've lost the feed to your camera. Can you ensure your camera is on?

[Paulin Mulatris]

Is it back now? Sorry.

[The Clerk]

Yes, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Please proceed,

[Paulin Mulatris]

Thank you.

If I may, I would like to add something related to Canada's socio-cultural role in the world. French-speaking Africa is currently going through periods of fundamental socio-political change. Students are true ambassadors of Canadian culture, and they are being called upon to play a key role in this time of transition. Canada should not deprive itself of the major contribution it can make through individuals who have its own values at heart.

I will be able to go into greater detail about these things if there is a question period. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Mulatris.

We will now proceed to our third witness for this panel, Madame Pirita Mattola, manager, international student and study abroad centre, University of Saskatchewan.

You may please begin. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Pirita Mattola, Manager, International Student and Study Abroad Centre, University of Saskatchewan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The University of Saskatchewan is part of a diverse post-secondary system that attracts international students to Canada. We recognize the tremendous value that students bring by contributing to Canada's culture, to our economy and to the richness of our education system. Canada's investments in international students can build mutually beneficial lifelong relations and result in long-term investments back into the Canadian economy and local communities. These reciprocal benefits should be kept in mind when making policy decisions and in thinking of how Canada can best support this special group of temporary residents.

During the pandemic, we have greatly appreciated the responsiveness of the federal government and IRCC in finding flexible ad hoc solutions and supporting our international students. As a designated learning institution, we have also appreciated the opportunities to engage in discussions with federal decision-makers through our province and other representative bodies. Knowledge sharing is vital for understanding the practical consequences of policy decisions, and we hope that this dialogue can continue in the future as well.

When it comes to our international students and the factors that impact their desire or ability to study in Canada, I would like to highlight the importance of post-graduate work permit eligibility, students' ability to gain work experience in Canada and study permit processing-related concerns. I would like to start by sharing some of the challenges that our province has encountered.

Saskatchewan has had one of the highest provincial study permit refusal rates for new study permit applicants, at least since 2013. As an example, in 2019, 64% of Saskatchewan-bound study permit applicants outside of Canada were refused, which was a much higher rate than in many other provinces. We are working to understand the factors that are affecting our students' approval rates.

In addition to delays, we know that post-graduate work permit eligibility remains a key driver for why some international students choose Canada over another country that can offer comparable programs. In an era of growing global competition in the international education sector, these linkages between students' short-term and long-term goals should not be ignored.

Currently, one of the challenges our students are facing is uncertainty about how remotely completed studies during the pandemic will impact the length of their future post-graduate work permit. Another concern is the hour restriction on study permit holders that limits off-campus work eligibility to 20 hours per week during an academic term. This puts international students in an unequal position compared to their Canadian peers and increases the risk of financial hardship, particularly at a time of record-high inflation. Easing this hour restriction on off-campus employment and improving access to co-op work permits are some considerations that could help level the playing field between domestic and international students and perhaps result in an easier transition to the workforce after their graduation.

In the case of Saskatchewan, considering that we have a fairly high percentage of rural population and an aging demographic, international students' entrepreneurialism and their keen interest in business ownership can also help sustain and grow the provincial economy in the long term. For this reason, international student-specific pathways to permanent residency should also be a priority to help retain talent where it is developed.

In the past, there may have been a perception that higher education in Canada is an inelastic good, meaning that cost increases or complex immigration requirements will not have a significant impact on global demand. The appeal of the country and quality education have been sufficient in attracting international students here. In the future, however, the regionalization of international education, increasing global competition and geopolitical factors may have an impact on Canada as an international education destination.

What can be done collectively to prepare Canada for this changing environment? From a practitioner's perspective, I would suggest that we give careful consideration to having flexible and expedited study permit pathways and building strong two-way relations with international students, who make significant contributions to our economy and society from the moment they arrive in our country.

Thank you very much.