Evidence of meeting #5 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was africa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Associate Vice-President, International, Kwantlen Polytechnic University
Yes, the degree is still valid.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you for the answer.
That's fantastic. I just wanted to make sure. It's important to clarify this type of thing, because people might interpret it differently.
Mr. Multaris, have you heard of the Chinook software?
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
This software was implemented in 2018, and I'd like to know whether you've seen a difference in the refusal rate among your international students, particularly students from French‑speaking Africa.
Have you noticed a higher refusal rate since 2018?
Professor, Université de l'Ontario français
The Université de l'Ontario français has only existed since this fall, so I can't go back to 2018.
Bloc
Associate Vice-President, International, Kwantlen Polytechnic University
I'm sorry, I don't know anything about it.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Ms. Mattola, does the Chinook software mean anything to you?
Manager, International Student and Study Abroad Centre, University of Saskatchewan
No. I'm sorry.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
This lack of knowledge shows us the opaqueness around the IRCC's Chinook software. It was put in place in 2018, and we don’t know how it works. Since its implementation, there's been a difference in the refusal rates of students from certain countries. Mr. Dhaliwal was talking about this earlier, and this is an example of the harm that artificial intelligence can do.
Mr. Mulatris, can external factors influence decisions leading to the refusal of students from certain countries?
Professor, Université de l'Ontario français
Could you clarify the question?
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'm talking about external factors.
Could red flags be raised because of the socio‑economic or political situation, for instance?
Professor, Université de l'Ontario français
I personally think so. That's why I said earlier that an in‑depth study is needed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We will now end our round of questioning with Ms. Kwan.
Ms. Kwan, you will have two minutes for your round of questioning. Please proceed.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'd like to go to Ms. St. Laurent, if I may, please.
On the same question around dual intent, would you suggest that IRCC get rid of this provision?
Associate Vice-President, International, Kwantlen Polytechnic University
Absolutely. I've attended many events where Global Affairs was present, as well as IRCC. Global Affairs talks about, and all of us in all our presentations talk about, the opportunities for international students. Once they've completed their program, they can work in their area of study, and that is a really big attraction for students. This is why many of them want to come to Canada. It doesn't mean they're not going to go back; it is just a great opportunity for students to come here to be educated and to understand Canadian industries.
However, if they mention that in their application, they get denied. It makes absolutely zero sense to me that one part of the federal government is investing a lot of dollars in giving that message to students, and then on the other side we have IRCC saying that if you include that and are stating a dual intent, your permit will be refused. It's confusing to us as Canadians, so you can well imagine what international audiences say: “Well, get your story straight. What do you want from us? What are you asking us?”
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you.
The next question I would ask quickly is this: For the students who started their study remotely and then later on are rejected, once they are rejected they cannot continue their studies remotely. Is that correct?
Associate Vice-President, International, Kwantlen Polytechnic University
No, that's not correct. They can continue their studies, for sure, and that's the point we were making.
Again, a very small percentage of students were denied; it's a handful. In 6,000 students [Inaudible--Editor]
However, they can absolutely continue. We are providing the courses, their programs, online, so they can complete their programs online in their home country.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Kwan. The time is up.
With that, I thank all the witnesses for appearing before the committee, for your time and for providing your important input to this study.
If for any reason you were not able to bring something to the members' attention, you can always send written submissions to the clerk of the committee and those submissions will be circulated to all the members.
With that, our panel comes to an end. I will suspend the meeting for a few minutes so that the sound checks can be done for the second panel.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I call the meeting to order.
I will take the opportunity to thank all the witnesses for appearing before the committee. Thanks for your time today.
In this panel, we have with us Mr. Luc Bussières, rector of Hearst University; Yan Cimon, deputy vice rector of external and international affairs and health, and director of international affairs and la Francophonie, Université Laval; and Alain-Sébastien Malette, associate vice-president, international, University of Ottawa.
Welcome to all the witnesses. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks, and then we will proceed to the round of questioning.
For the benefit of all the witnesses, before we begin, there are a few points I would like to bring to your attention.
Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like at a regular committee meeting. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your mike should be on mute. For your opening remarks as well as during the round of questioning, I'll give you a one-minute warning, a 30-second warning and a red card to show that the time is up, so please watch for these cards.
With that, we will go to Mr. Luc Bussières, rector of Hearst University.
Mr. Bussières, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please proceed.
Luc Bussières Rector, Hearst University
Madam Chair, vice‑chairs and committee members, thank you for inviting me to appear before you today to discuss a very important matter.
The Université de Hearst has a completely francophone mandate. It has been around for 70 years and is on its way to achieving full autonomy this year, after being affiliated with Laurentian University in Sudbury since 1963. Our university is small, very small, but we have three campuses in northeastern Ontario, in Hearst, Kapuskasing and Timmins.
Our mandate was initially regional, but since 2014, we have reorganized our service offering according to an original model that now allows us to recruit throughout the Francophonie.
As a result, 70% of our total student base now comes from abroad. In 2013, that percentage used to be zero. So we are demonstrating that it's possible to attract international francophone students to a region, in an English‑speaking province. Everyone will agree that, for an environment like ours, this is an important, necessary and decisive contribution to the vitality of our francophone communities and our university.
Post‑secondary education in French in Canada is attractive. This interest hasn't wavered, particularly in the case of French‑speaking Africa, and it suggests that the number of study permit applications will continue to grow significantly.
Since 2014, our experience with the international recruitment process has taught us that, in order to welcome 100 students a year, we had to make four or five times as many offers of admission, and that's after personal contact with twice as many applicants, about 1,000 applicants. So we're dealing with a large volume of cases, and that's true for all institutions. As a result, this is especially true for IRCC officers.
It therefore seems inevitable to us that the current way of working needs to be reformed. It's necessary if we are to meet the rapidly growing demand. It's also necessary for efficiency reasons to properly screen these applications, both for IRCC and for the institutions. Finally, it's necessary to restore the credibility of our system. The current refusal rates for applicants from French‑speaking Africa are difficult to explain.
I'll now give you an idea of the situation for a small organization like ours.
We have processed close to 4,000 applications since 2014, but this phenomenon really exploded starting in 2018. Of these applications, 70% come from West Africa, 7% from Maghreb countries, and 23% from the rest of Africa. In the end, almost 400 people enrolled with us after they obtained their study permit.
Although we have a large number of applicants to process, the graduation results for this clientele are excellent and currently range from 85% to 90%. These numbers indicate that the effort put into the system from IRCC to our institution are really worth it, especially when you consider that almost all of our graduates apply for post‑graduation work permits in Canada, and almost all of them get them. Of these, about half found employment in northern Ontario and the other half found employment elsewhere in Ontario and Quebec.
In conclusion, I would like to add that considerable energy and money is currently being invested, and rightly so, in the current study permit application system. However, we think it is crucial that the system be reformed to take into account the growing interest in studying in French in Canada and to ensure a better level of confidence in the process. Indeed, this process must not be undermined by abnormally high refusal rates for applicants from French‑speaking Africa or because the process seems unclear as to the criteria to be met—I'm thinking, for example, of the dual intent test—or the reasons given to applicants to justify refusing them a permit.
IRCC is responsible for reforming the current system. However, we think that francophone universities could contribute, since they have been serving and working with this clientele for many years.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Mr. Bussières.
We will now proceed to Mr. Cimon. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please proceed.