Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

My answer is similar to my last response. If there are unique or innovative solutions whereby we can get more people working in jobs....

One of the problems we're facing in the Canadian economy right now is potentially also the biggest opportunity we've had in my lifetime. We've had literally one of the strongest economic recoveries from COVID out of all developed economies in the world. At the same time, though, while we have more people working than we did before the pandemic and the GDP has exceeded prepandemic levels, we still have the largest labour gap we have had in my lifetime. There were 900,000 jobs available at the end of the year.

If we want to protect the livelihoods of not just these people who would be coming to work but also Canadians who are working for businesses and who have been sitting worrying about whether their employer will survive COVID-19, we need to look at getting that labour here as quickly as possible to make sure that we grow our economy to provide the services we count on, but also to protect the jobs of Canadians who are working in those businesses now.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Through you, Madam Chair, does the minister think they should have the same access to settlement services that PR holders have in order to ensure a smooth transition?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think in some instances we need to do more to provide strong settlement services. There's a unique issue around international students.

I'm out of time, so I'll just say that we also need to partner with institutions and provincial governments, which have responsibilities for them. I think there's room to improve, but there are some unique considerations for students in particular.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

This will be my last question.

A number of witnesses talked about racism and said that they think there's some racism involved in the high refusal rates for African students. Do you think they're right in their comments?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Look—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up, but maybe you will have an opportunity in the second round.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you will have six minutes. Please proceed.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Minister. I am very happy to see you here again before this committee.

Last spring, a special report by the Information Commissioner showed that IRCC received three times as many access to information requests as all other federal institutions combined.

I'll cut straight to the chase. Do you think that your department is transparent, Minister?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm sorry. I heard a statement but not a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

One second, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. They are having a problem with the interpretation.

It's better now.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, please start from the beginning.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

Minister, last spring, a special report by the Information Commissioner showed that IRCC received three times as many access to information requests as all other federal institutions combined.

I'll cut straight to the chase. Do you think that your department is transparent, Minister?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think it's a factor that results from the fact that we deal with a lot more people at IRCC than all other departments. We deal with millions of people.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That doesn't answer my question. I asked you if you thought that your department was transparent.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes. However, I do think there are some capacity constraints that we need to improve upon.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Will you release the directives given to agents and the numbers on acceptance rates for applications for study permits and student visas?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'd be happy to share any information about acceptance and refusal rates for programs.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Will you release the directives given to agents and the acceptance criteria for study permits?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

As long as they don't compromise the integrity of the process and the ability of the system to function or the privacy details, I believe we should proactively share whatever information we can that doesn't compromise our ability to have a functioning system.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's perfect. I'll keep that in mind.

Minister, does their intention to remain in Canada harm prospective foreign students?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There's a unique issue here—and I appreciate that it was a very short question. I think there's a good reason for why the rule exists, but I think we need to pursue certain changes, specifically flexibility in the express entry system and partnership with certain provinces so that we can establish a pathway to permanent residency for those we want to stay.

There is a good reason why we have a need to return when you're applying to come to Canada on a temporary basis.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

And yet, subsection 22(2) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, or IRPA, states that:

An intention by a foreign national to become a permanent resident does not preclude them from becoming a temporary resident if the officer is satisfied that they will leave Canada by the end of the period authorized for their stay.

Pursuant to the act, the intention must not harm. You are telling us that foreign students are important for the country, but they are still refused if they declare their intention to stay. I'm a bit confused.

Can you explain this to me?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

If we look at international students in particular, there's a unique issue. If I understand the question, and stop me if I'm off track here—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Don't worry, I'll stop you.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I know, thank you very much.

The issue right now is that we have somewhere in the ballpark of 8,000 valid study permits at any given time. We have 432,000 spaces for permanent residents. We can't have every single international student automatically qualify for permanent residence.

I want a lot of them to stay, because they have incredible economic, cultural and social outcomes. One of the issues is that we have to select from amongst the pool to make sure that we have space for other economic streams. I think we need to improve the pathway to permanent residency for those who want to stay, but it's not possible for us to have every single student qualify for permanent residence.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Minister, I must interrupt you.

There is proof about francophone foreign students, particularly those from West Africa. You mentioned students from Senegal and Morocco, but you could have included those from French‑speaking Cameroon and Côte d'Ivoire, who have been given various grounds for refusal, application after application. One of the common grounds for refusal is the fear that the student will not return to their country of origin after finishing their studies.

I know that you want to do as much as possible, but it's a major challenge for these students right now. It hurts francophone educational institutions in Quebec, but also those outside of Quebec, which are fighting to bring over students and would love to have them stay in their communities after finishing their studies.

In short, I think that we will need to work together on this.

You said that you have followed the committee sittings attentively and you are eager to hear our recommendations. I believe that you are sincere in this regard.

That being said, a dozen or so witnesses have told us that they would welcome the creation of an ombudsman position at IRCC. I asked you the question last Tuesday. I don't know whether you have had time to reflect on the idea in the meantime.

Do you support the creation of this position, yes or no?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I want to see what this committee reports back at the conclusion of the study. I don't want to prejudge what other testimony they may hear. I'll take every recommendation of this committee seriously, including what you decide about an ombudsperson. I'm not prepared to commit to one decision or another before the committee has had the benefit of all the evidence that may come forward, let alone me having the benefit of that same evidence myself.

I look forward to what recommendations you may have.