Evidence of meeting #30 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Do you think the U.S. is a safe third country? I mean, you ask the U.S. to take refugees. Do you believe that it's a safe country for refugees to go to?
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
We continue to ask the U.S. to take refugees, as we ask all countries.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Okay. Thank you.
The other thing is that in your opening statement you talked about making decisions not based on “populist rhetoric”. Could you qualify that? Are you talking about public concerns about the impacts on housing, let's say, or social services costs? Would you consider those two elements populist rhetoric in decision-making?
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Not in decision-making, no. I would consider that these are elements we keep hearing that aren't necessarily.... We don't hear the facts behind them most of the time.
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Like the fact that for both the housing crisis or situation here and the health care strains in the system, these aren't caused by refugees. Refugees are 1% of the population here.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Just a minute, I want to fact-check you on that. The government's interim federal health program has increased by 1,200% in spending. Who caused that, if not refugees?
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
That's not what's making the system under so much strain. It's a part of the system, but it's not—
Conservative
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
There's been scapegoating. Refugees are being blamed.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
No, no. This is what I think the dichotomy is. I want a fair and just refugee system, but when we have an organization like yours come in and call asking about the sustainability of social programs “populist rhetoric”, it gets a lot harder for us to make the case for a sustainable refugee system.
I'd like to give you an opportunity to clear the record. Are you really telling the Canadian public that the amount of intake of asylum seekers and refugees doesn't have an impact on the 1,200% increase that we've seen in the usage and the cost of that program, which is designed specifically for that cohort?
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that refugees are not—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Ms. Rempel Garner, your time is over.
I'm going to allow the witness to finish her answer, please.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Well, I actually had the microphone and you cut me off, so—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Your time is over.
I want her to get a chance to respond, please, for 30 seconds. I'm the chair, Ms. Rempel Garner—
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
No, no. I have a point of order on this. I have the time, and I feel that you—
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Okay, but on a point of order, I feel like what you're doing right now is not in accordance with procedure. You are supposed to maintain neutrality, and I feel like you are giving the witness additional time because you want her to make a point against me from a partisan perspective. If the time is over, the time is over.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Your time is over. I was going to give the witness a little bit of time to be able to respond.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I am just going to call that I feel like you are making a partisan decision, and you're not making a neutral decision—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
I hear you. I heard you the first time, Ms. Rempel Garner, but I don't agree. I was giving the witness some time—
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
For the record, I believe that you are cutting me off, and you're—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
No, your time is over. I'm allowing the witness to answer the question.
Can I give you just 15 seconds to finish your response, please, Ms. Maulfair?
Representative in Canada, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Thank you.
No, I do not think that everything that's happening is populist rhetoric. What I'm saying is that we need to get to the facts of this, and refugees cannot be scapegoated for all of the ills in any society.