Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Mr. Ho.
Thank you, Mr. Jacques.
Next, we have Mr. Zuberi for five minutes.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thanks to all the witnesses for being here today. I'd like to continue with Mr. Jacques.
I will give you a moment if you have any further comments about people settling in Canada. Also, on the housing issue, with respect to using hotels and how that factors in for asylum seekers—for families and individuals as they use hotels—would you like to elaborate further on that point?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
Thank you.
Yes. In the region of Peel, we needed to separate the two populations—domestic homelessness and the asylum claimants—and we did that. We converted a commercial building to create 592 spaces for individuals in a congregate care setting.
For families, because it's not a compatible use to put families in with single individuals, we have hotels. We are in the process of creating a family shelter for asylum claimants in the region of Peel. In those instances, we have dedicated spots for asylum claimants so that they are not taking spaces away from the homeless indigenous population in Peel.
It really helps us to focus our resources, because the needs of individuals coming in, as Ms. Stellinga has indicated, are very specific. We can focus in on those and we can focus on the resources that we have to deal with our domestic homeless.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I'd like to ask Ms. Stellinga about relocating asylum claimants and the specific consequences for those asylum claimants if they're away from their cultural communities, for example, or their linguistic networks or potential social and family ties.
How does it impact their integration and their ability to contribute to Canadian society in the future when they aren't close to their support networks? Do you want to comment a bit about that?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
Thank you.
It makes a huge difference. People are drawn to people and networks where they can feel like they connect, like they belong, and where there is integration and there are community supports. We know first-hand that those experiences and those opportunities make a huge, vast difference. We know that when people are in places where there aren't networks or there aren't supports, they're not going to be successful. They will return to other communities, where they may find larger networks or the perception of larger networks and access to jobs. That is critical. It's essential to have those community supports.
That was my point earlier. When we are looking at people across Canada, those communities, those regions, need to be set up in ways that provide those supports that are critical for successful integration.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Certainly, and for the settlement services that we've been discussing so far, to what extent do they play an important role or a role in an asylum seeker choosing to settle in one region or another?
On the existence of these settlement services, such as we have heard about and that are being provided, to what extent do they factor into that decision-making?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
They do because the assumption on their part is that because those services are there, they will be successful: They will have a better chance of finding housing, a better chance of finding language supports and a better chance of getting employment. That's the draw for them. There are also probably community networks for them in terms of their own cultural communities and backgrounds and the shops, businesses and networks that exist and help them.
We know that through settlement support the outcomes are far more positive. That does exist and that is a draw. It's an important part of how people feel they can connect and be successful in the communities where they live.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You testified earlier that large centres like Toronto and Montreal tend to attract asylum seekers. Are you seeing any trends where asylum seekers are moving outside of the metropolitan centres to more suburban or rural areas? Do you want to comment a bit about that?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
They are. We know that there are communities in Kitchener, London, York region and other parts of Ontario and across Canada where people are looking to settle.
I think the point is that if we can provide them with information about what exists and what the opportunities are for success, and if we can provide that access, they will be more successful and they will be more willing to go. If they don't have that information or have misleading information or perceptions about certain communities, and if that's not clearly visible to them or understood, what happens is that there's a greater chance of failure in terms of settlement.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Ms. Stellinga.
Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.
Mr. Deschênes for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Barutciski, let’s continue the discussion so we can fully understand how Germany went about this, because it could be a suggestion we might make in Canada.
First, please describe the distribution process to us. In Germany, there are Länder, and a formula was created so that each Land receives a number of asylum seekers that it is capable of accommodating. How was this formula developed?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
As I understand it, two-thirds of the allocation is based on tax revenue, and the remaining third on population size. That's how it works.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
So, based on these two criteria, an integration capacity is determined.
Professor, York University, As an Individual
Correct.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Next, when asylum seekers arrive in the country, what happens? As I understand it, they’ll be assigned to one of these Länder and will be required to stay there for three years. Is that correct?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
Services will be provided in that Land. So individuals will be encouraged and helped to settle there. The idea is to distribute asylum seekers fairly throughout Germany.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Based on what you know, is this a requirement, or can asylum seekers choose to live in Berlin, for example?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
My impression is that the German authorities are much more subtle in their approach. It’s not that they’re insisting that consent isn’t important; it’s just that they strongly encourage asylum seekers to relocate, and they’re not the only European government to do so. Services are offered in a specific Land. So, if an individual doesn’t want to go there, there will be a whole series of administrative problems. It is therefore coercive, in a way. I see it as a kind of coercive administrative measure.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Based on observable data, does this method work?
Professor, York University, As an Individual
As for the distribution, I think it’s working pretty well. We’re seeing a real distribution. I’ve been to Berlin and a few other places, and you can see service centres being set up there. This encourages communities outside major urban centres to take the reality of forced migration into account. So it’s becoming a national debate that strikes me as much healthier and more balanced, insofar as the central government in Berlin is providing resources to the various Länder so they can properly house and welcome these people.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Mr. Deschênes.
Thank you, Professor Barutciski.
We have only a few minutes left. I'll give two minutes to Mr. Redekopp and two minutes to Mr. Fragiskatos.
Go ahead, Mr. Redekopp.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you.
The minister expects about two million temporary residents to leave Canada this year. That's about 160,000 per month, which in the area of Peel is probably tens of thousands per month.
Mr. Jacques, are you seeing that on the ground? Are you seeing tens of thousands of people leave the country once their permits expire?
Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
We wouldn't have evidence of that. We don't track whether they leave the country or not. Once they qualify and they've registered, it's up to IRCC to track their movement within.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Ms. Stellinga, have you seen even anecdotal evidence of people leaving in the thousands and tens of thousands to achieve the number the minister is expecting?
Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
We've certainly heard from individuals and families that they are considering going back home or to other places because they've not been successful here or they've not found the opportunities they thought they might find.