Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We have time for a short response there. Does anybody want to jump in? Go ahead.

[Bernadette deGonzague]

With regard to Ontario, yes, there are only eight communities of the at least 32 that are remote and/or fly-in communities only. Only eight of those are eligible for the new program. Because the use of food mail depends on whether or not they are eligible for the new program, we don't know why they weren't using food mail, and we know that a lot of communities weren't even aware that food mail was available. Communication is key here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Ms. Simon, with a short response.

[Mary Simon]

Mr. Bagnell, I just want to echo what my colleague from Yukon said about the availability of country food. It's the same in other parts of the north as well. For instance, in Nunavik, in northern Quebec, where we live, there are no caribou this year. In fact, people have to fly in to another location to hunt for the caribou, so it's costing them extra dollars to hunt for the meat that we need for the winter. The fact that you can't always depend on animals that migrate has to be taken into consideration in this scenario.

The other thing is, in terms of storage space, the bigger businesses like Northern Stores can think further ahead and prepare for the sealift, which comes once a year in the summertime, but for the smaller private sector retailers, it doesn't work that way because they don't have the facilities or the storage space to stock up. That's what happened in Kuujjuaq, for instance, when the food mail program started. All of a sudden they had signs all over the store saying that things were going up by 40% because they were no longer covered. People were totally confused.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We are quite over time at this point. I think we'll leave it at that.

Ms. Simon, thank you very much.

Mr. Lévesque, the floor is yours for seven minutes.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank my colleague who is usually first to ask questions. This time, since I am very much interested in the problem we are currently experiencing, he allowed me to go first.

I would like to welcome you.

I am very happy to see you here. Although I understand the eagerness to hear from all the witnesses we can, it seems to me that, once again today, we have a lot of witnesses at the same time, and I am afraid that we might not be able to get to the bottom of things.

The program is extremely important not only for Inuit but also for everyone working with them in the north. They are all facing the same problem.

I would like us to go back briefly to the current Food Mail Program. We know that, in order to reduce costs, perishable food is shipped over land as much as possible. The goal is to reduce costs because shipment by air is very expensive.

Until now, Canada Post asked carriers to bid to ship the products from the location closest to the territories. All carriers were able to bid for a contract. Taking into account all feasibility criteria, Canada Post would choose a carrier and oversee the implementation of the program.

And now, we want to invest $45 million over two years to establish a new program. Instead of subsidizing transportation for perishable food by the kilogram, we are going to subsidize retailers—usually the major retailers—and they will have to ask various carriers to submit bids. So there is a loss of bargaining leverage.

It is all well and good to say that non-perishable food will be excluded from shipping to lower the costs of the whole program, but the communities don't have the means to store non-perishable food. They may be non-perishable, but they must be stored in the communities for at least eight months.

I wonder if $45 million is sufficient to allow the community, not the retailer or the wholesaler, to build a warehouse to store all products on its territory.

By removing non-perishable food items from the list, could we not provide enough funding for the program to really lower costs, while checking the real retail price against the shipping costs right from the start? I feel we would then be better able to control prices in the communities, although we could ask for oversight, as Nutrition North does at the moment.

This question is for each of you.

Is it possible to find less expensive means of transportation than by air for each of your communities, taking into account the quality of the food that is being shipped and the price—since price is important for the communities—to be able to compete with, say, fast food?

The floor is yours.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll go around the table. We'll actually start with Ms. Labranche, for about 30 to 40 seconds each if we don't exhaust our time. So a short response on Monsieur Lévesque's question.

[Marie-Josée Gauthier, Representative, Nunavik Regional Board of Health and Social Services]

Could you just repeat the last question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Could you repeat the question, sir?

[Marie-Josée Gauthier]

You would like to know if we could find other means of transportation—

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

—that would be less expensive.

[Marie-Josée Gauthier]

—for perishable food.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

For perishable food, taking into account both quality and price.

[Marie-Josée Gauthier]

I don't see any means of transportation other than a plane for perishable products. In my opinion, there is no other way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll go to Ms. Simon or Ms. Kendrick.

[Mary Simon]

For Inuit communities, there is no other way of bringing in perishable goods, because if they're on a ship, it takes days for a ship to come into the Arctic. There is really no way of bringing in perishable goods, so it has to be done by air. This is where the high cost really comes in.

There has to be a way to make sure that the retailers are getting their maximum ability to get good fresh produce that isn't going bad, and costs less. There could be a situation where retailers are buying food that isn't fresh, but it costs less and then it goes up to the community. We don't want that. We want fresh produce. The retailing system has to work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay.

Mr. Jock.

[Richard Jock]

I think one of the things we're trying to emphasize by having the communities involved, particularly in designing the appropriate transition and providing more input into the design of the program, is that it will ensure that the maximum benefits are achieved, whether by looking for new shipping mechanisms or at ways of ensuring that the program is having an impact through the price reductions.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Jock, but could you focus on my question? Can you think of a means of transportation that would be less expensive and more profitable, and that would ensure the quality of food in the communities?

[Richard Jock]

In terms of whether airlines or...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The translation is not working. Could you please repeat the question, Mr. Lévesque?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Is there a way other than by air to ship food at a lower cost, ensuring that the quality is still good at destination? And I am still talking about the location closest to the communities.

[Richard Jock]

I would say in general that airlines are the best mechanism, but at times the northern roads and ice roads are mechanisms that are in place for parts of the year, which can be also useful for northern communities. But those northern roads are actually diminishing in terms of the amount of time they can be used for on-ground transportation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. We are getting to the end here. We had a couple more witnesses—

[Mary Simon]

That doesn't apply in the eastern Arctic. We don't have ice roads; we only can do it by air.