Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2010

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I'm sorry; let me ask you a question. Tea is on the list and coffee is not; Pampers aren't on the list—

[Mary Simon]

This is in Nunavik, in one of our retail stores.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Were your communities involved in a consultation around what was on the list and what was off the list?

[Mary Simon]

No. One day they—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Did anybody talk to the women who are the primary caregivers of children?

[Mary Simon]

No. One day we just had these signs all over the store saying this is now $40 instead of $20, because the subsidy no longer applies to it. There were signs like that.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

You have three to three and a half minutes.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Good.

Ms. Simon, I want to come back to you again and others about country food. I can't remember who said it, but I understand that country food will be eligible for the subsidy if it's commercially packaged. Explain to me how many communities have facilities to commercially package country food.

[Mary Simon]

It's probably none.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

So virtually what is being eliminated is any talk of a subsidy for country food, which is, as we know, a very important part of the nutritional....

[Mary Simon]

Yes, and I think that really shows how different the needs are.

I don't know what they're doing in Old Crow, but in Kuujjuaq, what some of our people are doing—in fact, what my family is doing—is fly to another place where there are caribou and hunting the caribou. Then we put them in containers ourselves, and then Air Inuit has graciously given us a subsidy—I think it's 88¢ per kilo—for country food, if you pack it yourself and you bring it on the plane.

So there are ways that we are trying to figure out how to get our country food, but it has nothing to do with the program. We're trying to figure it out ourselves, though it should be more of a policy issue and a discussion on how these things are going to work for people at the community level. Hardly anybody can go on Air Inuit and go to another community to hunt caribou. They're not going to have caribou for the winter.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Anybody who has had the experience of travelling in the north understands how expensive it is to travel into the north, or into any of the fly-in communities.

Did you want to say something quickly?

[Bernadette deGonzague]

I just want to echo that the cost for anyone to try to do this on their own is much less efficient than it could be if there were policy in place to help with the sharing of traditional foods.

There are 133 communities in Ontario, at least half of them are in the north, and it costs $7,000 to fly to Fort Severn. So we need to have that discussion on sharing of traditional food, because that's an important aspect.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Elias, I read your speech in your own legislature on the motion that you introduced. We do sometimes read these things, you know.

My understanding of what you're asking for is that the current program be left in place, with perhaps some minor tweaking—I know you said to remove Canada Post from the picture. So essentially, the program as it stands was working for your constituents.

[Darius Elias]

For the most part it was, yes. Over the years we've tweaked the system from having all of the administration happen at the Air North hangar. The excellent employees at Air North would put the category of items in different boxes and then send them to Old Crow. If they weren't under the subsidy program, they'd package them and send them as freight, for whatever Air North charged. That system worked very well.

For the Nutrition North Canada program to go around in the capital city—I'll use Whitehorse—and ask who wants to participate in the program.... If two of the major stores—Superstore, Loblaws, or a specialty store that only operates six months of the year, such as the fruit stand that brings fruit from the Okanagan—don't sign up, then we can't receive the subsidy. That takes away opportunity and choices from my constituents, and that's unacceptable.

So again, implicit in our request is access to affordable food, and that's going to achieve the program objective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That will do it. Thanks, Ms. Crowder.

Now we'll invite Ms. Glover, for seven minutes plus, since that's the trend. We'll make sure we're balanced.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

I want to take a moment to thank all the witnesses for being here, because it is a very important issue. As Mr. Elias just said, this is really about making sure that we get affordable, nutritious food to the people who absolutely need it who are in remote areas.

I've heard all of you commend the government for trying to look at this in that way and to achieve that objective. We are still several months away. We still have an advisory committee, which is going to be used as the voice for our northerners to ensure that we get this right. So I appreciate your input today.

I have heard, however, a number of statements that were just completely incorrect or false, and it's become obvious to me that more information has to be shared. I would encourage all of the witnesses.... On the website you can see exactly how some of these things are going to transpire. For example, perishable apples are never going to be on a boat rotting. Perishable foods are going to be the foods that are subsidized and will be flown by air. The comments that I hear today suggest to me that we need to do some more work to educate concerning this Nutrition North Canada program, and we are several months away, so we intend to do that.

We're also going to ensure that education is available in the communities through Health Canada. I was very pleased to hear some of you talk about the need for pamphlets and the need to educate people, particularly those people who are affected by many of the diseases that aboriginal people suffer from, such as diabetes. We have a huge problem with diabetes, and I am very confident that the Government of Canada is looking towards a program like Nutrition North Canada to help stop the deaths that are occurring in our northern communities because we don't have accessible, affordable, nutritious food.

I just want to correct a couple of things. Funding.... The one really good thing about this new program is that in the past funding was at about $27 million per year, and since the year 2000 we've had to go back to ask for more money. This is going to bring stable funding. There will be $60 million a year invested in this program. It's stable funding that I believe will allow many of the retailers and wholesalers and the people who are stakeholders in all of this to better prepare for long-term solutions.

Country foods, of course, will be subsidized. I heard a lot of suggestion that they won't be subsidized. That's just not factual.

The eligibility requirements.... Again, the website dictates who is eligible and who is not.

I'd like to ask Chief Dumas, when did your community use the previous food mail program?

[Chief Arlen Dumas]

Yes. That would have to be based on the individuals. There were people such as teachers, there were community members who did participate in certain portions of the program historically.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'd like those details from you, please, Chief, because my information is that you've never used it.

[Chief Arlen Dumas]

Okay.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

If we're wrong, that's why we have an advisory committee with stakeholders who can assist us with this. The eligibility, and I want to make this very clear, reads as such: “Communities that use the current Food Mail Program extensively will continue to be eligible. Communities that use the program, but not extensively, will be eligible for a nominal subsidy rate during the first year of the new program.”

Communities that have not been using the food mail program at all are the only ones who are ineligible; and furthermore, if they want to become eligible, we do that case by case. So there are no cuts. If we're wrong, please send me that information. I'd be pleased to look into it for you. But again, I'm going to refer the witnesses to the website to get much of the information that is listed.

With regard to Old Crow, Mr. Elias, I was very pleased that you touched on some of the prices, because they are extreme. You were touching on prices of nutritious foods, and that's what this program is going to try to focus on, providing those nutritious foods at an affordable rate. It is ridiculous that someone would pay a higher price for milk than for a bottle of Coca-Cola. It just doesn't make sense, particularly when many of our communities are suffering from some of the diseases we've talked about earlier. And Old Crow is the exception, so I want you to know that.

[Darius Elias]

I asked for an exception.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

The exception is there, sir. The exception is there, so Old Crow, because of its unique situation, is an exception and will continue with many of the subsidies and whatnot.

I did want to ask some questions, though, because I want to make sure we fine-tune it, and I was listening very intently to hear that you want some fine tuning. There are some non-food items that you may want to have included. As I said before, we're concentrating mainly on perishables that will have subsidies; non-perishables will go by boat or other methods of transportation. But I want to know from each of you, is there an essential non-food item that you would like to see included on the list of eligible food products?

I have one more correction before I get to the answers on that question. Coffee and tea are equal. Ms. Simon, again, coffee and tea are equal. So if someone in the community is telling you, a retailer or wholesaler, that they're not equal, refer to the website. Let us know. We're pleased to intervene on your behalf. We will be monitoring these very closely to ensure that they follow the rules.

But please, answer my question: if there are some essential non-food items that you feel should be supported by the program, I'd really like to hear about them.

Chief Dumas?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll just take the hands up on this.

Actually, let's go to Chief Dumas, and then over here to Ms. Gauthier.