Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 11th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Blaney, you have two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Inspector Preston, in your experience, what workaround has the RCMP had to utilize in order to help first nation communities with the enforcement of bylaws or first nation traditional laws, such as banishment? Has it been successful?

[Insp Jeff Preston]

One thing that the RCMP is excellent at is using workarounds when there are problems within a community. We truly want to try to come up with a solution in working in conjunction with community members.

For example, when we have a banishment law that has been passed, or even if it has not been passed and there's an issue with an individual on reserve that the community wants gone, we will stand by and keep the peace. We will go there proactively and speak to the individual, although we aren't necessarily able to grab hold of them and throw them off the reserve on behalf of the band, and explain the process and help get them off in a peaceful manner.

Again, it is that personal relationship that seems to work the best when the laws that are enacted aren't sufficient to do the job.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The relationships aspect keeps coming up. Earlier, in your response to the last MP, you talked about resources and one of the challenges. My interpretation of that is to ask if there are enough resources to have your members go into the community and have some time up there that isn't just about enforcement but is about that connection and that connection-building. Is that a challenge, then?

You talked about having one RCMP officer for three communities, and I would assume it would be a challenge to send your members up to just hang out for half an hour to get to know people. Is that a resource issue?

[Insp Jeff Preston]

Every community or every detachment is different. In some of our smaller detachments, I've had the opportunity and a little more time, so I could personally go out and do that proactive work. A place like Campbell River is a much busier location, and time to go to the reserve is very limited for a lot of our officers. It's not from a lack of wanting to; it's just that they have priority calls in the queue and they have to go and respond to them. Therefore, yes, resourcing can definitely be an issue.

Again, I can only speak for the detachment areas that I've personally worked in. I can't speak for my colleagues in Saskatchewan or elsewhere.

Staff Sergeant How, maybe you could pipe in on your experience.

[S/Sgt Ryan How]

Yes, that's absolutely correct.

Further to the relationship-building aspect, when the members are so busy and responding to calls for service, and usually violent calls for service, this situation makes it extremely difficult for them to be in a mind frame to go and build a relationship in any spare time they have. We have to remember that they're people too.

Bearing in mind that we're recovering from a pandemic and our depot was in a shutdown, our resources are going to be thin here for a while.

However, absolutely, resources are an issue in terms of relationship building.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

Gary Vidal, you have five minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up on where the conversation has been going on the concept of relationships and communication. Obviously this is my last opportunity today and I want to end it on a relatively positive note.

Staff Sergeant How, I know you have some stories in your own experience of some really positive things you've been involved in personally, and also some that your members, for whom you've been a leader, have been involved in. Back in your time as the commanding officer of Meadow Lake, when I was the mayor, you initiated a communication strategy to tell some of the good stories about what the RCMP was doing in our community, so that it wasn't always about the negative things. It wasn't always about the enforcement things.

I want to give you an opportunity to share two or three of these positive stories and how the impact of those positive stories could benefit those who are policing in first nations communities, both those that are neighbouring non-indigenous communities and those that are more remote and northern.

[S/Sgt Ryan How]

Thank you for the question.

I read through Chief Blake's comments last week from the Tsuut'ina Nation. He made a comment about enforcement being only a very small part of our job. I very much agree with that. There is a lot of restorative justice going on behind the scenes. It's as simple as Mr. Vidal was saying.

A few years ago, we had a Mountie from Quebec. He was posted to a northern first nation in Saskatchewan. He had never been on a first nation before. He went to a powwow. As soon as he heard the drum, he started dancing in his own way. You may have seen it; it was national news. We had the dancing Mountie. The fact that he let himself go and stepped outside of his professional persona won the community over. It was just a simple three- or four-minute escape for him, I suppose. It's things like this that you don't see and that are outside of the enforcement.

In my time in Loon Lake, we were dealing with an extremely violent gang that was terrorizing the whole side of the province using the colour red as a method to intimidate and scare the community. I was so frustrated, because kids couldn't even walk to school. They were terrified that these gangs were always out and they always had firearms.

One of my young members made a comment about the colour red. He said that we wore red first, hearkening back to our red tunics. We met with the community leaders and were informed that red is a very important traditional colour in first nations as well. We said, “Let's take this back.” Again, this is totally outside of enforcement. It's thinking outside the box and relationship building.

What was thought of was to get the community mobilized all in red and walk around and tell the gangs “no more”. This was our community. We mobilized over 350 people to walk around the community that day. We were very impressed with the community because it was willing to stand with us, and we were willing to stand with them. That had far more impact than any enforcement that could have been done.

Just to reiterate, the common theme I'm hearing is that it's all about relationships and hundreds of thousands of positive contacts between the police and all communities, especially first nations, every day that don't get noticed.

I appreciate Mr. Vidal's question and his letting me get the message out there that while there are legislative barriers, it's very important to acknowledge that there's excellent work being done.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I going to honestly suggest that I thought Staff Sergeant How would kill my time telling stories, but he didn't.

Inspector Preston, can I throw that at you? Do you have a similar story to share that comes from a positive perspective like that?

[Insp Jeff Preston]

Thank you for the opportunity.

As Staff Sergeant How said, we have hundreds of thousands of interactions with the general public each day or year. The only things that seem to get publicized are the one or two that go negatively.

There are a multitude of good stories being told throughout the province here. I can speak of, and I know Ms. Blaney will know, Corporal Chris Voller, who worked the north end of the island here, very close to my detachment. He has worked super-hard with the community in Port Hardy. He was basically indoctrinated into the community and was given a first nations name. He was loved by all because he truly became part of that community.

Unfortunately, when he left, it left a hole there, but he has now gone to Quadra Island here and is working with We Wai Kai first nations. He started off on a great footing, trying to do some reconciliation work with the community.

I could go on and on. I have an officer here who, when it does snow—we don't get a lot of snow on Vancouver Island, which is great—he'll take out his personal snow blower and go and blow the snow out of the elders' driveways. It's things like that.

Speaking of reconciliation, we just recently brought all the detachment commanders from the island here to put on a village workshop. If you're not aware of it, it's a workshop put on by an educator here from the university that outlines the impact the residential schools have had on first nation communities. The hope was that those commanders could then take that knowledge to their detachments and spread it to each officer and hopefully even bring that education to the detachment by bringing the educator there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks, Inspector.

We're moving along in time. That brings me to Ms. Zann.

You have five minutes.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I have a question. I would open this up to any of you to respond.

You had talked about drug dealers on reserve. When it comes to the issue of selling cannabis and cannabis places opening up on reserve and selling edibles and things like this as well, how do you deal with that in your regions of the country? This is happening here in Nova Scotia. I know there are mixed feelings about it on reserve by both band and council and citizens. Could you please tell me a little bit about how you deal with that?

Thank you.

[Insp Jeff Preston]

Unfortunately, I won't be able to answer your question on that. I don't have any experience with it. I can get our headquarters to provide you with some information, though.

[S/Sgt Ryan How]

I'd be the same. I have no experience with that, unfortunately. I apologize.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Okay. Thank you.

When it comes to the difference between acting on behalf of the province or acting on behalf of the Government of Canada, here in Nova Scotia, the RCMP is retained by the province in some areas and also, as Pam mentioned earlier, by some of the counties in others. Sometimes there is frustration in some situations when the RCMP are seen as not really doing anything. Obviously there is enough blame to go around for everybody.

Could you explain again the differences in your responsibilities when it is the province that is hiring you, versus the feds, versus municipalities, and expand a little bit more on that?

[Insp Jeff Preston]

Thank you for the question.

Regardless of who is paying—what we call a collator—or who is funding your position, the role and responsibility of every officer is to uphold the various statutes regardless of whether you're federally funded or provincially funded or municipally funded. You're there to enforce the laws and regulations that are on the books, the ones that are enforceable. The frustration for the community occurs when they believe there is a law and they don't think that the police are enforcing it.

I go back to my example of the Motor Vehicle Act. It's not that we don't want to enforce it, but that there's case law that says, “No, that law doesn't apply on those specific roads.” That's a very difficult thing to try to explain to the general public when it's hard enough for the officers themselves to understand and keep straight.

The short point of it is that regardless of who is funding your position, your job is to uphold the various regulations.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

I'd also like to ask about wellness checks, as there have been a number of cases in which the RCMP have been called to go for a wellness check, and it has not ended well for the person.

I know you said that oftentimes it's the bad news stories that hit the media, but these are definitely upsetting stories. I know that local police officers here in Nova Scotia have said that they prefer not to go to wellness checks. They believe people who have more training in wellness and mental health issues should be going to these calls.

What is your response to that, and what recommendations can you make?

[Insp Jeff Preston]

I'll let Staff Sergeant How speak in a moment.

I can speak for the officers around here. We go to an awful lot of wellness checks. I agree that it would be very nice to have a mental health worker come along with us, but unfortunately, in a lot of the rural communities that we police, we are everything for everyone. We are the mental health officer. We are, in some cases, the nurse and everything else. At three o'clock in the morning, there is no one else to call, so we are de facto it.

We do have a lot of training in this regard and we can go and deal with those situations, but I would rather not have to if I didn't have to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That brings us to time.

Thanks very much, Ms. Zann.

Thanks to all of our panellists for another remarkable hour of testimony. I'm sure we'll have valuable thought and recommendations coming out of your testimony today. Once again, thank you so much for being here.

We are going to suspend briefly while we change panels.

Thanks, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

I will now call this meeting back to order.

With us is Chief Dale Cox of the Lakeshore Regional Police Service in Alberta. As for our guests from Sûreté du Québec, hopefully we will get to them when the technical issue is resolved.

For now, Chief Cox, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Chief Dale Cox, Lakeshore Regional Police Service]

Tanisi.

Good afternoon.

Good morning to everybody.

I'm speaking to you from Treaty 8 territory in northwestern Alberta. I'd like to give you a bit of my own history and the history of our police service.

I'm about to enter my 43rd year of policing, so I've been around for a while and have seen a lot of this go on.

Our police service is moving into its 13th year of operation. I spent my first 30 years with the RCMP. I left to become the first chief of police for the Lakeshore Regional Police Service and to build the police service from the ground up.

I'm very proud of the men and women who work here. I'm also very proud of the communities that have stood behind and supported first nation policing.

The issues I want to speak about today are around enforcement, but enforcement within the realm of self-administered first nation policing. We are on the cusp of moving forward in this area, which for years has been neglected. The potential for what can happen there has not been fully recognized.

With Alberta moving forward with Bill 38 last year and recognizing self-administered first nation policing in the province, we were put on equal footing with all policing in Alberta, including all municipal policing and the RCMP. That gave us 48% of the recognition we required. We need the other 52% of recognition as an essential service and a true policing service, and that needs to come from the federal government, our 52% partners in self-administered first nation policing. We hear that is moving forward, but unfortunately I've been hearing those things for quite a while.

Part of what I'll share with you today are stories that show the distrust and the lack of belief within the first nations for this truly moving forward.

I'll share with you a story from six years ago. The public safety minister called together everybody in first nation policing from across Canada. Our meeting was held in Alberta. There were representatives from Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia there. The minister got up and spoke for 45 to 50 minutes. Within that speech, he said at least five times, “I am here to listen to you and hear what it is you need.” He finished speaking and walked out of the room. I was sitting beside an elder, who looked at me and said, “I wonder if he could hear us from out there.”

Those are the types of things that have caused that distrust. Unfortunately, that distrust moves to the policing realm as well. I can tell you it has taken us 12 years to build that trust, and we are in part the victims of our own success.

Our calls for service—and our belief that when people call, somebody will come—have moved forward, and we are sitting with more files than we have officers to police them. Our issue right now is resourcing. I don't sleep at night because with the resources at our police service, I usually have one police officer working.

For everybody to understand, our area consists of five separate first nations. The total area is over 160 kilometres from one end to the other. With only one police officer working, I'm asking police officers to decide which priority one call they will go to first. Do they go to the mental health call where somebody is in possession of weapons or do they go to the domestic dispute where somebody is being hurt? What do they do when there is only one person to go? They can't be split in half. Those are the issues we have out there.

The other story I'll share with you is about an issue that bothers me to this day. Since we do not have enough resources to police around the clock, there are four to five hours each day when nobody is actually working, even though they are on call. At 3:30 a.m. on a blizzardy February morning, we got a call for an assault and stabbing on one of our nations. Our member was called out. He defrosted his vehicle, got on the road and drove through the blizzard. By the time that had all happened, the ambulance had been called.

The ambulance works 24 hours a day. It arrived at the scene. The victim was inside, bleeding profusely, and the family was outside, begging the ambulance attendants to come in and treat their son. However, ambulance services have a policy that attendants can't go into dangerous situations without the police being there. That resulted in a homicide.

Those are not things I'm able to justify to my community, my elders, or to those families.

Those are the areas where first nation policing has moved so far past what it originally came out as—that is, core policing and response policing. We have the trained members, the ability and the community confidence to be able to supply all the services that are required out there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Chief Cox, that brings us to time.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

Mr. Clerk, are we good to go with Captain Durant?

[The Clerk]

I hope so.

Captain Durant, can you take 10 to 15 seconds to introduce yourself?

[Robert Durant, Captain, Director of Val-d’Or RCM Service Centre , Sûreté du Québec]

Is the microphone working this time? Can you hear me well?