Evidence of meeting #10 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Billy Morin Conservative Edmonton Northwest, AB
I have one more question, sir, while I still have the time.
You talked about the investment of 1,000 police officers for the RCMP. We've heard the scathing report of the Auditor General on the failures of your government and the RCMP. How come first nations and indigenous policing were left out of that? Also, how come there are no Métis references in the budget to keep those communities safe?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There is a distinction in terms of the RCMP. They offer contract policing, so many provinces, including yours, Manitoba and Saskatchewan and a range of provinces, have what we call contract policing. That is, we have a contract until 2032. We certainly have a desire, and the RCMP has a desire, to continue that service to those constituents, those citizens.
The investments that are going in are going towards federal policing, which has to do with the border and enforcement of anti-terrorism legislation, on—
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Minister Anandasangaree, thank you for joining us this evening.
I would also like to thank all the senior officials who are with us.
Over the past few weeks, as the member of Parliament for Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, I have met with several indigenous and non-indigenous organizations that are doing remarkable work in the field, including the Street Links team in Saint Boniface and the N’Dinawemak Centre.
What I hear consistently is that many of the safety issues we face here in Winnipeg and across the country are deeply rooted in poverty, housing insecurity, trauma, substance abuse and mental health issues. These findings echo much of the testimony we heard during our study. Witnesses often emphasized that, in order to ensure public safety, it was essential to address the underlying social causes, rather than just the symptoms.
How does the Department of Public Safety support and collaborate with actors on the ground, such as community safety officers, to improve safety at the local level?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
I appreciate the question and where it's coming from.
If I'm hearing you correctly, your question is on urban indigenous populations. There's a distinction between challenges faced by urban populations and challenges faced by those on reserve, in community, and they're two different legal frameworks. I hate to put it in those terms, but within communities, a lot of the services are through federal transfers. In terms of gaps, we need to continuously close those gaps. With respect to urban populations, it's very much centred in the municipalities. So, there's a role for municipalities and for the provinces, as well as for the federal government.
From a public safety perspective, the RCMP is not the police.... The federal police are....police of jurisdiction in many cases. We see that in Winnipeg. You were a part of some meetings in Winnipeg. I know that there's definitely a groundswell of support and, I think, great collaboration that's taking place between the three levels of government, as well as civil society, which has for many years been doing the brunt of the work. My role, and I think the role of the department, is to facilitate and use our convening power to make sure that everybody's at the table.
One of the things we did in Winnipeg was the transfer of the former Hudson's Bay facility to the Southern Chiefs' Organization. Through this budget and previous budgets, we have additional resources. There's Build Canada Homes, which will provide transitional housing. There's certainly a need for mental health supports. Those have been going through the federal government, but they're funnelled through the provinces.
The role we have is that of collaborator, and it's one of taking leadership to bring that collaboration together.
Liberal
Ginette Lavack Liberal St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB
Thank you very much.
You also mentioned the Auditor General’s report and the fact that you have accepted some of the recommendations in that report. Could you talk a little about the concrete steps taken so far?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
First of all, we accept the Auditor General's report. I expressed my frustration earlier. There are a number of things we have done.
One is the modernization of the FNIPP terms and conditions so that there's greater flexibility and a reduced administrative burden for communities.
We have a new FPT governance structure, which improves the funding decisions we make.
We use multi-year funding proposals, which is something we've heard over and over again. Even today, we've heard the frustrations and the challenges around having limited, shorter-term funding. In fact, we are able to go as far as 10 years in certain cases, and ideally, that's where the benchmark should be.
We have national-level tracking reports, aligning program demand with available resources. We've also updated the 1996 first nations policing policy and developed a new performance measurement framework.
A number of measures have been taken. There's still work to do. It's not just about the Auditor General's report. There are other commitments that we have under the 94 calls to action. There's enormous work that we still need to do around missing and murdered indigenous women, girls and two-spirit individuals, as well as around the UNDA action plan.
We're working in tandem. We're working across government, and we're working as a whole of government to address many of these issues.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
Thank you. That brings us to five minutes.
We have a little bit of time for a brief discussion with the parties. We're going to do a rapid two-minute round. Respect the two minutes, please. I'm going to be firm with it.
The Conservatives are first.
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Minister, the Auditor General and indigenous police chiefs are very concerned about short-term funding under the first nations and Inuit policing program, which you mentioned we've been waiting five-plus years for. Yet, under this budget, your government is spending more on the war on licensed firearms owners than you are on Operation Reassurance, a NATO mission, securing the border by hiring Canada Border Services Agency officers. How can you run an $80-billion deficit and have a program that costs more than a NATO mission and say that we're going to be safer in Canada?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
Mr. Schmale, I can go into the reasons for the assault-style firearms program, but I can also say the funding that you referenced—
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
Are we able to define “assault”? Have we landed on a definition of “assault rifles”?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There are 2,500 assault-style firearms that are part of the prohibition. There are three different orders in council—
Conservative
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
There are 2,500 firearms. Maybe, Mr. Larkin, if you want to—
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
No, Minister, before you go, if you have a restricted firearms licence, your name is run under the policing database every single day. It's basically being on parole every single day. These are law-abiding people. You are going to go and confiscate some of their firearms that they legally purchased after obtaining training and a licence. We have a NATO mission that is getting less money than this confiscation program that isn't going to make anyone any safer. How can you justify that?
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON
Just for the record, the program you're referencing was previously budgeted and those—
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
You're still spending the money, and we're $80 billion in the hole. Should we not see a result?
Conservative
Jamie Schmale Conservative Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON
A result would be making Canada safer or fixing the indigenous policing program that we've just talked about many times over again. That is basically getting no attention.
Liberal
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Sheehan
I'm sorry, Mr. Schmale, but that's time.
We have the Liberals for two minutes, please.
Liberal
Jaime Battiste Liberal Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS
Minister and Deputy Commissioner, we heard testimony that when Mi'kmaq communities had tribal police, while that was a better model that they were happier with, the project was set up to fail because of inadequate funding. We also heard that you need RCMP support for major crimes, major investigations, which most tribal police don't have the capacity to undertake.
With that in mind, we've seen communities take on jurisdiction over things like education. We've seen provincial indigenous groups take over health. I'm wondering if there is a possibility for us to look at a hybrid model that not only builds on the community's ability to have their own tribal police, but one that gets collaboration from the RCMP in a flexible and collaborative approach.
Senior Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
In short, policing of communities is a democracy. One of the strengths of our nation is the way police services are developed across our country. Certainly, the RCMP's commitment is that we would work in collaboration with public safety and a specific indigenous community to ensure their success.
On the national infrastructure and the work required to operate police services, we have full commitment to ensuring that infrastructure and that support at the national perspective will always be there. Equally, if any indigenous police service, including the current self-administered indigenous police services in Canada, require RCMP support, whether it be through contract indigenous policing, specialized policing or federal policing, let me reaffirm that we will be there to support that community, that police service, to ensure the safety of the residents.
Again, we're very open to that dialogue and discussion to ensure the evolution of policing in Canada.