Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2025

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

You're going after the wrong people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We're over the time.

Brendan, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you for being here, Minister.

Thank you to the officials as well.

Minister, I've worked with you in your various roles over the last few years. You were, of course, the parliamentary secretary to the justice minister, then Crown-indigenous minister and now are the Minister of Public Safety. I know you've had ample conversations about community safety.

One of the specific topics that relates to indigenous policing is community safety officer programs and how they work with existing more traditional police services. Of course, the Yukon offers many models of how this can be developed and work.

Just to remind anyone participating in this meeting, the community safety officers really focus on prevention, on de-escalation, and on social and community support. That really complements the more traditional enforcement role of police officers. Also, part of the process is developing a community plan that really is rooted in what the community priorities are when it comes to community safety. We've had House of Wolf and other witnesses speak to the value of this program.

That part of the issue that was about federal resourcing for CSO programming is a segue to the bigger picture of financing and resourcing indigenous policing. Part of the uncertainty is also over which federal department leads. Talking through the number of portfolios that you've had, there is overlap in many of these areas.

I wonder if you can comment on what you've learned about CSO programming and how that could fit into and complement indigenous policing and traditional policing.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Hanley.

When you ask this question, I can't help but acknowledge that the first treaty implementation on administration of justice was in the Yukon. I know that it set a mark for others. Obviously, the notion of self-determination over policing in the administration of justice is crucially important. Ultimately, that's where we need to get to. In the interim is where all these programs come in.

With respect to community safety officers, we have a budget of about $13 million. There are about 10 agreements across Canada that have a number of community safety officers who are working in communities. The opportunity is that they're able to do some of the non-policing work, including issues around mental health and issues around public safety, without the enforcement capabilities, and it has proven to be a workable model.

I do think that there are some challenges, because when there are security issues, you probably do need an actual police officer there, but for many communities, in conjunction with the policing service, it can be optimized. I do fundamentally believe that we need to start and to continue to expand these programs.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I am going to follow up on some questions from my colleagues around the table.

We have repeatedly heard, as part of this study and in previous studies, about the struggles with the lack of financial support and, often, the lack of parity between indigenous policing services—through the various agreements—and more traditional policing services in other areas of the country. We have heard how that really affects the ability to retain officers. Of course there is a huge advantage to indigenous police officers from the community in that they are trained and comfortable in the language and are culturally sensitive.

I recognize what Commissioner Larkin said about the efforts to step up education; nevertheless, how can we help you support that need and look for that necessary financial support, even as a preamble to legislation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Could we have a brief answer please?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Currently we have 36 bilateral and 147 tripartite agreements with the provinces. That's a 52-48 split.... More provinces are coming on board, and even with the provinces that are already participating, they're expecting us to do more. That's actually a good thing because it requires all of us to be at the table. As recently as two weeks ago, when we met federal, provincial and territorial first ministers on public safety and justice, this was a critical part of the conversation.

The commitment I made—and I'll make it again today—was to make sure that we work towards sustainable long-term funding. Of course, the notion of essential service is important, but it also requires the provinces to undertake the same level of ambition when we get there, so it's not just the federal legislation. It does need to bring the provinces and territories on board as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Sébastien, you have two and a half minutes please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Anandasangaree, thank you again for joining us.

In 2020, the federal government expressed its intention to legislate first nations police services as an essential service. We heard this many times during this study. However, a discussion paper released in 2024 by the former minister of public safety, Dominic LeBlanc, your predecessor, seems to move away from this commitment. In your opinion, what explains this reversal? What concrete measures should the federal government put in place to ensure that this future legislation is recognized and that indigenous police services are truly recognized as an essential service? Is it the Minister of Public Safety of Canada, i.e., you, who should introduce this legislation, or the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, a portfolio you held without introducing such legislation? Which minister should do so?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

If it's tabled, it would be through Public Safety.

Let me respond to the question. The notion of policing as an essential service, as a principle, is something I fully accept. I think that, as a government, we are trying to close the gap, as we have continued to do with a range of issues over the last decade. In policing especially, we will continue on that path with the additional resources we have put in over the last number of years.

Legislating it becomes a bit more complicated because essential services, particularly in the provincial context, require provincial-federal partnership. Not all provinces are there, and we are unable, through federal legislation, to bind the provinces to ensure that it is an essential service.

I think there is work to do there, Sébastien, and the work right now for us—and the commitment I made to the AFN—is to commence a conversation to see how we can ensure the principle of policing as an essential service is attained, and then from there, we can move towards potential legislative recognition of that. That will require much more work with the provinces and territories, though.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Can you provide us with a timeline for the introduction and passage of such a bill in the House of Commons?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I wish I could give you timelines on bills being passed, but you know I am unable to do that. My commitment, though, is to continue and to sustain the discussions, particularly with first nations and Inuit, and I am more than glad to—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So there is no timetable.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

—report to you in a year on progress.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next we have Billy for five minutes, please.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

Earlier, my colleague Mr. Schmale asked a similar question asking for timelines for the commitments to the legislation as being essential. You finished off by saying that economic challenges are also a factor in that.

Is that correct?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

You heard what I said. There are, obviously, some difficulties right now on the fiscal frame, but I think that what is important and what the Prime Minister has reiterated is that, with respect to the critical files around reconciliation, we are continuing the path, and our commitment is to ensure that reconciliation moves forward and that services are not reduced in any way.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Sir, if you're saying that there are economic challenges, you're running an $80-billion deficit. What economic challenges are stopping you from protecting first nations and indigenous communities?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

There are a number of areas, and I will be the first one to admit and have admitted here that there are gaps. There are certainly disparities in the levels of services caused by decades of neglect. In the last 10 years, I would say that we have made some significant progress in terms of closing the gap. There are still gaps out there, and there is still work that we need to do as a government and as a country. For any successive government, there will be work to do. This is another area where that work needs to continue.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

You mentioned earlier that, for the last 10 years as a parliamentarian, your primary focus has been on reconciliation. Are you the right minister? You've been the CIRNAC minister. You know this file intimately. You know the communities intimately. Now you're the Public Safety minister. You refuse to give a date to get the legislation done to make it essential.

Are you the right person to get this done?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I will leave that to your judgment, but I do have a record here that I can defend with respect to reconciliation. If you would like me to enumerate that, I would be glad to, but I don't think that's necessary.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Yesterday, during the budget submission, the finance minister had the audacity to say, “We build...for those who follow us.”

I'm reminded of the seven-generation principle rooted in indigenous teachings. We are reminded that every decision we take must consider its impact on future generations. While these communities are in crisis, and they have been in crisis for decades, you refuse to go to essential and keep these communities in crisis by going year by year with this programming. How can they get out of crisis? How can you say that they are for seven generations when you keep them in crisis with these one-year programs and do not declare legislation essential?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Morin, I would not be the person, certainly, to tell you, because I think your lived experience and your leadership speaks for itself. What I can say is that, over several generations, there have been a number of policies that have deeply and adversely impacted indigenous people, particularly first nations people, with respect to the Indian Act.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

How many more generations is it going to take?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I wish I could answer that question. I wish I could say that it's going to be in the next 10 years. What I can say is that we have taken meaningful steps. Over the last decade, we have changed the trajectory of where we were going, including child welfare, the recognition of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action, of which the 10th anniversary is coming up, and the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and two-spirit calls to justice. We've been advancing on these issues for a number of years.

There is work to do. I will be the first one to say that there is work to do, and this is work that we need to do together in a manner that advances reconciliation and doesn't politicize this issue. I would love to work across the aisle with you and many other colleagues who I have been able to work with in the past. I invite you to continue this conversation, because I recognize the frustration you have. It's the same level of frustration that I've heard in the 60 or 70 communities that I've been to in the last year or so. It is work that we—