Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2025

[Bryan Larkin]

On behalf of Commissioner Duheme, we are absolutely willing and we will meet at your request. We're happy to do that, and the commissioner meets regularly. We can certainly, through his office—and I have the privilege to work in the commissioner's office—arrange that and support that meeting. We'll also confirm that in writing.

As I alluded to, there are a number of significant strategies that are ongoing across the country, including in depot, around cultural competency. In short, I want to confirm to you our complete commitment as an organization. We're working hard on this. We recognize that it's a journey. It's not a program. It will take some time to build trust.

Again, in the more than 550 communities where we provide service—and I know Chief Superintendent Ellis can provide some pieces—our members are privileged to be a part of those communities and to contribute to the safety of those communities. That remains at the forefront of the work we're doing.

I can speak more to the work we're doing around de-escalation and those pieces. Tragically, too many individuals in our country have lost their lives at the hands of police, and one is too many. It speaks to the larger work we need to do, not only in policing but in the communities we serve. That includes other wraparound services to ensure the safety of all citizens.

Again, I will commit, on behalf of Commissioner Duheme—because I have the ability to do so—that we look forward to arranging that meeting, having that meeting and hearing directly from chiefs from across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Sébastien, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dakalbab, you mentioned that you are coming to the negotiating table with a good idea of what you are going to put on the table, which is perfectly normal. On the other hand, we have heard from several indigenous representatives that the government often comes with an attitude that what it puts on the table is take it or leave it.

Can you tell us how the negotiations are going? Are the specific characteristics of the communities being taken into account?

[Talal Dakalbab]

I can assure you that the attitude with which my team and I approach this is really to listen, first and foremost. Of course, we are working within a budget, so I cannot have more money than the amount we are allocated. However, as recently as last week and the week before, I met with community leaders from Saskatchewan, Alberta and even Quebec. We listened to their needs, and I personally committed to meeting with them in person to see how we can improve the services or amounts allocated to them.

As recently as this week, I sent messages to four provinces, asking them to come to the table with certain indigenous communities and us to discuss needs and see how we can support these communities. I can confirm and give you my personal and professional commitment that we are open to discussion and negotiation. As I said, we may ultimately be limited in the total amount we can grant, but that does not prevent us from being open to discussion.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you. I appreciate your response.

Several police chiefs also spoke to us about the need for infrastructure, equipment purchases and training for indigenous communities. Does the first nations and Inuit policing program meet these needs and, if so, how?

In addition, there has been construction or renovation in Pikogan, Kebaowek and Timiskaming. Did the funding for these new police stations come from this program?

[Talal Dakalbab]

Indeed, there have been investments. However, I will be very honest with you: despite my confidence in the first nations and Inuit policing program, there is still a long way to go with this program. There are certain limitations. It is sometimes difficult to build in more remote areas or to ensure that contracts are signed on time. I am not just talking about the federal government, but also the provincial government and indigenous communities. In general, we know that it is not easy.

I must therefore admit that we still have a long way to go with this program. We have the money, so it’s not a question of money. It’s really a question of process and capacity to ensure that construction is completed on time and that agreements are negotiated on time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Now we have Billy for five minutes.

[Billy Morin, Conservative, Edmonton Northwest, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, guests.

Considering it's pretty close to Remembrance Day, I want to thank you for your service—to our RCMP members as well.

I guess where I'll start is with a little bit of background, being myself former chief of Enoch Cree Nation. Adrian knows this as we've worked in the department as well.

I was lucky to have a great relationship with the local RCMP. Commander Lokken, who now runs depot, was in Parkland, and he also had a subdetachment at our nation. We're lucky enough to be close to Edmonton and have our own source of revenue. I truly believe too that the federal government should chip in, the province should chip in, but nations themselves should chip in as well for their own policing services as a way to be able to create their own economies. We were lucky to do that with the RCMP and public safety.

I want to give a quick shout-out to Nelson Salter and Ray Starzynski, in particular. Those are two commanders I worked with. They did a great job for our community, and as you mentioned. Commissioner Larkin, we hear so much about the implementation and the enforcement of nation bylaws. The RCMP actually enforced our toughest bylaw, which is the eviction law, and they did it pretty consistently.

I know lots of first nations and indigenous communities and Inuit communities don't see that, but I know it is possible, so thank you for referencing that.

I was talking to Commander Lokken not too long ago, catching up with him and other RCMP members, about the upcoming budget, and they were advocating for mental health services and training. I'm wondering if you can expand upon that and put it in the context of working with indigenous communities, because they're unique placements— trauma-informed, their own history, along with a tough history of the RCMP, in particular. Can you expand upon what you are seeing on how that mental health investment would help in particular within the context of indigenous communities for a new training aspect?

[Bryan Larkin]

Thank you for the kind comments in relation to the leadership team. We're very proud of Assistant Commissioner Lokken and the work that he's doing at depot. It's in good hands as we look to the future of developing the next generation of police officers.

As you know there are some specific challenges, and I know Chief Superintendent Ellis will bring some real-life, on the-ground experience.

The first and foremost one is taking a different approach to mental health calls for service for addiction and housing. For those types of challenges, the best approach is a community approach.

Certainly from a policing perspective, the RCMP's position is that we will not arrest our way out of some of those challenges; that the judicial system, as strong and as robust as it can be, is not always the suitable answer; and that you need community-centric, community approaches to solving some of the significant complexities we're facing in communities.

One of the challenges that we face as an organization is the majority of communities that we provide policing services to are often in limited, remote or northern areas, which make challenges for larger services and wraparound services. Often the only answer and the only solution at the end of that phone call is the local RCMP officer managing many different hats and doing many different things with the best of intentions, with the best of their abilities and the best of their skill sets.

Very clearly, in partnership with public safety, community safety officers and other mental health approaches, we endeavour to continue to work with provinces and territories on the evolution of the way that we provide policing. Recognizing the timing and such, Lindsay may have a unique approach that is working in the Yukon that would actually bring credit to the discussion that we're having.

[Lindsay Ellis]

In the Yukon, there are two areas I'd like to highlight.

The first one is the community safety officer program at Kwanlin Dün First Nation. That program operates every day in strong collaboration with the three police officers from the first nations and Inuit policing program who are assigned to Kwanlin Dün First Nation.

That community safety officer program is an on-the-ground, community, culturally relevant and trauma-informed service to the McIntyre subdivision in Whitehorse, Yukon, which is the settlement lands of the Kwanlin Dün First Nation.

The work they do ranges from letting an elder's dog out in the evening hours when that might be a little bit dark and cold and scary to supporting the RCMP in their work when someone requires some wellness supports or follow-up and wraparound services. That's one highlight I will provide.

The second one is car 867, which is the mobile crisis response team. It is a territorially funded initiative out of Whitehorse detachment that pairs a police officer and a nurse. There are currently two police officers and two nurses. There are indigenous employees attached to this initiative. They not only respond to individuals in crisis in that trauma-informed and culturally informed way, but they also provide some prevention, check-ins and follow-up that have dramatically reduced the Mental Health Act calls for service at Whitehorse detachment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much for that important answer.

Philip, you have five minutes.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I am from B Division in Newfoundland and Labrador and the member of Parliament for Labrador. Like my colleagues, I want to thank all your members for the great work they do in Labrador. It's the north. It's the Yukon by another name, and it's as beautiful as the Yukon.

I want to talk about policing and indigenous policing in communities. We've spent a number of sittings hearing from indigenous police chiefs who talked to us about the importance of consistency in community and how that brings tremendous results.

I'd like to direct my question to the senior deputy commissioner. It relates to FIFO, or fly-in/fly-out. I want to ask you to comment, to the extent that you can, on the benefits and the burdens of FIFO on the community first but also, equally as important, on your members.

[Bryan Larkin]

Clearly, policing the north is a complex challenge, and, of course, finding members to spend a significant amount of time in those communities can be challenging and complex, but, equally, it can be very rewarding.

As you're aware, we have been experimenting through pilot projects with the fly-in/fly-out and drive-in/drive-out model, depending on the portion of the country you're in, where a member would land in a community for an extended period of time—15 to 16 days—and then leave the community, and the next member would come in. We also are finding consistency in the same members coming in and out of the community, which has been well received.

Our internal audit is doing an evaluation right now on the fly-in/fly-out and drive-in/drive-out model. I can tell you that we received more than 6,000 responses from community members, internal members and leaders on that program, which will guide us in a larger direction. It's been a very successful audit. We do not have the results yet; however, generally speaking—and certainly Commanding Officer Ellis can provide further context—the feedback we're getting from Assistant Commissioner Pat Cahill in Newfoundland and Labrador is that it is a successful model. It's not without financial implications and travel implications, particularly in some of the areas when the weather patterns change, etc., but we are seeing enhanced consistency in the members who are in those communities and when they come and go, etc.

Again, it's early on in our pilot intervention. We've looked at the Ontario Provincial Police fly-in/fly-out and drive-in/drive-out model extensively, and we've also looked at the Sûreté du Québec model to see the best way we can provide service to northern communities that is consistent. As you alluded to, the greatest success in policing is around relationships, and that can only be done through interactions and through listening and those types of pieces.

Lindsay, am I missing anything? I know you have a couple of models that may bring a real live example, as well.

[Lindsay Ellis]

Thank you for that.

I agree with my colleague and senior deputy that it can be a benefit to many of the remote and rural areas, but it also comes with some challenges.

In the Yukon, we've been fortunate in that all of our detachments are tenured detachments. We've not implemented fly-in, drive-in per se, other than for the relief team that I spoke about earlier. The reason is that we do not have a maximum tenure in our staffing policy in the Yukon, but we have a minimum tenure. There's a requirement of a minimum tenure in the community.

Of course, things happen. Sometimes life changes, and sometimes members are unable to complete their commitment to that community, but I would say that is rare. The staffing policy of not having a maximum time in community provides that time for relationships, and it also provides the interest for the member and their family to ensure that their wellness is taken care of. Should they need to, perhaps, come out of remote policing for a certain time, say, into the larger centre of Whitehorse, then we have the ability to help them with their flexibility, with their life choices and their career choices. It's been highly successful in the Yukon.

I will say, as policing pressures continue with resourcing—and it's not just the RCMP; I think the previous committee members spoke about the total landscape across Canada—it may be something that we have to look at in the Yukon, but at this current time, fly-in, drive-in, fortunately, is not where we're at.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

That brings us to the end of this second round of questions.

I'd like to ask the committee if we'd like to adjourn. We have just a few minutes left before 7:30. Are we all okay?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I want to thank the witnesses for your testimony and helping us with this study.

The meeting's adjourned.