Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2025

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso—Antigonish, NS]

Absolutely, but before you speak, Commissioner Larkin, I just wanted to also frame it: We're not just looking for indigenous policemen; we're looking for first nations language speakers, because if they can speak the language when they come to the door.... How can the RCMP help ensure that first nations language speakers are prioritized as part of the 1,000 new RCMP we've gotten?

[Bryan Larkin, Senior Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Minister.

Here is some quick data to bring you into the current context.

For this fiscal year, we've had 405 applicants who self-identify as indigenous. Out of those 405, 37 have already graduated from depot. This year, more than 5% of our graduates from depot identify as first nations, Inuit and Métis.

I can tell you that it is a consistent priority with a specialized indigenous recruitment strategy. In particular, around the indigenous languages, I want to highlight that in December 2023, in our official languages branch, where I serve as the champion, we took a culturally innovative approach to launching an educational program to ensure that the regular members and those who are serving in the more than 550 indigenous communities also bring cultural competence, including language. We currently have 140 regular members who are in ongoing language training in seven different languages in the indigenous community. We hope to continue to expand that in 2026.

We also celebrated our 31st anniversary of indigenous pre-cadet, where we bring young indigenous individuals who are interested in policing to RCMP depot to have an experience, and we've seen tremendous success.

I want to reaffirm our commitment that, as part of the 1,000, we'll have a specific approach to onboarding and implementing more indigenous regular members into our organization.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire has the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Anandasangaree, thank you for joining us.

Obviously, as former minister of Crown-indigenous relations and northern affairs, you are very familiar with these issues. As you know, the Auditor General has repeatedly raised concerns about the funding of indigenous police services and the lack of consistency with the government’s commitments. This was in her recent report, in the 2024 report, and in others.

Yesterday, there was a budget, which did not contain a single line on indigenous policing. How do you defend that?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you for your question and for your work.

Over the last several years we've had a number of investments in policing. We have a new infrastructure fund of about $200 million over five years. We've also put additional resources into indigenous policing to the tune of $250 million, again over five years. The quantum in terms of available resources for indigenous policing is around $350 million, and this is over a number of years.

We were not anticipating additional resources on this budget cycle. As you know, a number of investments were made, including the RCMP.

Your point with respect to the Auditor General's report is well received. When I read these reports, I am frustrated by the lack of progress. I've been working on this file for the last 10 years as a parliamentarian. The primary area of my work is on reconciliation, an area where I think we have not been as efficient and as ambitious as we should be. My responsibility going forward is to ensure that indigenous policing is prioritized to the point that we can get additional resources and we can have greater self-determination, as well as bilateral and trilateral agreements with first nations communities.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I understand and share your frustration, as do many members of the various indigenous communities in Quebec and Canada.

Yesterday’s budget allocates $1.7 billion to strengthen federal police services, including the hiring of 1,000 new Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers. However, Quebec’s indigenous nations will not benefit from this funding because, as you know, the RCMP is not present in the province of Quebec.

This shows that the problem is not a lack of available resources, but rather a lack of political will to support indigenous policing initiatives and self-determined community safety programs in Quebec.

How does your government justify the exclusion of Quebec’s indigenous communities and all those who wish to establish their own indigenous police service from this investment project? I would remind you that you were Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations. You have therefore had a long opportunity to influence the Minister of Finance or the Prime Minister.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I think you pose a very good question with respect to the police and the 1,000 new RCMP officers. I will disagree with you when you say that it will not have a direct impact on Quebeckers. In fact, it will. If you look at the budget—the 1,000 new personnel, the RCMP officers, as well as those experts—you see they will be deployed primarily for federal policing, which includes issues around the border, around cybercrime, human smuggling and a range of other issues that impact indigenous communities, particularly border communities. There is an RCMP detachment in Quebec, a very strong contingent, that supports federal policing. Maybe not directly, as you indicated, but indirectly these 1,000 officers will have a net benefit to Quebeckers, as well as indigenous people within Quebec.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I understand, but it has little impact in indigenous communities and on the ground in terms of ensuring safety on the streets. I would like to give the example of the Winneway community, the Long Point first nation, whose chief, Steeve Mathias, we welcomed last week. He has been working tirelessly for over 20 years to ensure that Winneway has its own indigenous police service. Agreements have been signed and services are currently provided by the Sûreté du Québec, but this is obviously causing a lot of turmoil there.

You have provided $150,000 in funding for a feasibility study for an Anishinabe regional police service. The deliverables have been prepared, the study has been conducted, but the police service has not been created, mainly due to a lack of will.

In his brief to the committee, Chief Mathias indicated that Canada has been absent from the negotiating table since 2006, i.e., for nearly 20 years. Can you assure us that Canada will resume leadership of the process, return to the negotiating table and demonstrate the will to implement the promised indigenous policing pilot project?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would it be possible to have a timeline, please?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I'm more than willing to meet them within the next 90 days. I will be part of the first meeting—I invite you to be part of that meeting as well—and then we will let officials continue. My commitment, as always, would be to monitor and ensure the work is done.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I appreciate your response. Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Next we have Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing here today. The last time we spoke at the committee level, you were here in your previous role as minister of Crown-indigenous relations. At that time, we were doing a study on indigenous procurement, specifically the use of fake indigenous identity to obtain access to government contracts.

My question here relates to a letter I submitted to you earlier today, which was signed by you on December 13, 2024. It's in response to a letter that was sent to you by somebody named Eagle Eyes, a.k.a. Geoffrey, who is claiming to be the grand council representative of the Alliance of Indigenous Nations. A quick Google search of that name shows some pretty questionable results. There is the question of the legitimacy of this and whether they are indigenous at all.

Unfortunately, there is a band that just popped up recently called “Kawartha Lakes First Nation” that is claiming indigenous status. It's claiming 15,000 square kilometres of bands within the Williams Treaties area, including Scugog, the Chippewas of Georgina, Rama, Alderville, Hiawatha and Curve Lake, just to name a few.

Minister, the so-called chief of this organization is claiming that this letter confirms that you signed off on their being legitimate. Is that true?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

It's not true.

The recognition of indigenity is a complex process. There are modern treaties that will recognize certain groups as indigenous based on the modern treaties that have been signed. There are historical treaties that recognize specific groups. In the modern context, this is within the context of the Indian Act. This particular community does not belong to the Indian Act band.

The process of recognition is an onerous process through what's called section 35 recognition. That involves an enormous amount of work, not only on the part of the community but also on the part of Crown-Indigenous Relations and the Department of Justice, that, over time, establishes the historical basis for that recognition.

I can affirm, Mr. Schmale, that in this case, that did not happen. What you gave me this afternoon is a form letter response to a letter that was received while I was in my previous portfolio. It is a courtesy response, and frankly, it does not in any way recognize the rights of this particular group.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Perfect. There is no legal authority. There's a process. They're not legitimate.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

Just to be clear—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

I do have a few other questions, too.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

I'll be very brief.

We all receive letters, and we all respond to correspondence. A courtesy response should not imply anything further than that.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Okay.

Minister, going back to the policing issue, in 2019-20, your government announced a desire to make indigenous policing an essential service. We've gone way past that. We're in 2025 now.

To Sébastien's point earlier, there was nothing really in the budget regarding indigenous policing other than a piece of a nation's jurisdiction, which they think was a positive step, but at the same time, your budget is also showing that you're going to spend more on going after licensed firearms owners than you are on Operation Reassurance as a NATO operation, securing the border and hiring Canada Border Services agents.

How is this a justifiable use of dollars when we have a study here with indigenous policing and nations talking about one-year programs, short staff, burnout and crimes going up? How can you justify spending it on legal firearms owners when there are problems all around you?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

To be clear, the dollars that are mentioned relating to the firearms buyback program were previously budgeted. They are really not new or additional dollars.

Having said that, with respect to the work on policing as an essential service, I think that there is work that we need to do.

I would say that there is a need for additional funding, and we will work with colleagues here, but we will also work with first nations and Inuit leadership, as well as communities, to ensure that there are additional resources in the upcoming years.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

We've had testimony about response times lacking in a lot of these circumstances, because they are rural and remote. That is a problem for police services to respond to existing circumstances.

How much longer are we and these nations supposed to wait for this legislation, if it ever comes forward? We're going on five years plus now. Has there been any headway here? Are we getting any closer to something happening?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood—Rouge Park, ON]

My approach is slightly different, Mr. Schmale.

As you know, I came into this portfolio in the last five months. One of the realizations I have on this is that we need to get the funding before the legislation comes in. There is a fair bit of work to do.

I know that there has been co-development of legislation, but I think that, given the current economic context, what we want to do is first of all ensure that we have funding. Secondly, with the national chief, I have asked to—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Well, I think a good place to get funding is the firearms program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

That's time.