Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll ask my question more quickly so that Mr. Vivian can have time to answer it.

As I was saying, I'm the member of Parliament for a northern constituency where a great deal of activity takes place, particularly in the mining sector. We know that economic development sometimes leads to road construction. We also need roads for other reasons as well. This can benefit the public.

You spoke mainly about opening up certain regions. I would like you to elaborate on what this can contribute to our study. You spoke about critical and strategic minerals. These minerals are also found in my constituency. I would like you to tell us, if we step outside the realm of mineral exploration and development and really get to the crux of the study, how this can benefit the public.

So, I would like you to talk about the opening up of the region and, if applicable, the current and future contributions of companies.

[Gary Vivian]

I think I can answer that one fairly well because we're dealing with that issue with the Tłı̨chǫ and Akaitcho in the NWT.

I truly believe that roads need to connect communities because communities will benefit from the mine infrastructure that needs to happen. As I said, it costs four to six times more to do exploration in the north—and probably in northern Quebec too—than it does in the southern part of the provinces. Having communities connected to mining infrastructure creates significant abilities both for communities to benefit from opportunities provided by the mine and for the mines to access the communities.

I totally believe that any infrastructure should include communities along the road that can help benefit mines, because mines will then benefit the communities. To me, the business opportunities in the communities will increase significantly if there's road infrastructure to those mines, rather than access by air.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Do you have anything else to add, Mr. Vivian? Instead of making a lengthy presentation, you decided to take more time to add some perspectives to all the issues we are focusing on, which include the costs of food, heating and transportation. We have just talked about that. That encompasses a lot of things. Do you have any suggestions as well?

I know that your perspective may be highly specialized. However, I understand that you worked in a number of northern regions, so you have certainly seen some issues. It must be said: When the mining industry comes to town, like in my region, it can lead to some challenges or cause a few issues.

What can businesses do to avoid making certain problems worse in the communities? Of course, there are benefits, but can you also tell us what can be done to get the communities to accept the projects and get involved in them, so that this type of industry that is setting up shop in these lands also works to their advantage? I am thinking about indigenous communities in particular.

[Gary Vivian]

Whether it be with Dene, Métis or Inuit communities, the opportunity lies with the mining companies themselves to create engagement and transparency at the very beginning.

One thing I would say about the permitting system in NWT and Nunavut is that it's a co-management system, so you can't really progress without the engagement of the communities. Business opportunities are part of that engagement. As long as a company engages early and often, those opportunities will continue to happen as a mine develops.

I would suggest that if you look at the Tłı̨chǫ and the Akaitcho in the diamond mining area of the NWT and ask the people there about mine closures, they will tell you that it will definitely hurt them when those mines close down and they lose the benefits they have received from them. The four diamond mines that were operational at one time in the NWT were all established under a co-management system that allowed indigenous businesses to be involved in the development of those mines. Early engagement and opportunities for Dene, Métis and Inuit are absolutely critical aspects of any mine development now.

If there is road access, it significantly lowers the cost of exploration, even if it's a winter road.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next we have MP Eric Melillo.

You have five minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To our witness, thank you for being here.

I come from northern Ontario, which Ms. Idlout always reminds me is not as north as the territories, but it's still pretty north. It features a number of similar challenges when it comes to food costs and remote communities and has a lot of resource opportunity. There is a lot of gold, lithium, critical minerals and chromite. Of course, we have the Ring of Fire, as everyone knows, in northern Ontario.

Despite all of that opportunity under our feet, a lot of the northern communities, particularly the remote communities, continue to live in poverty, quite frankly. Across the north, there are countless youth getting into drugs. They've died of overdoses. Many have taken their own lives. Quite frankly, it's a suicide crisis.

I was on the phone with a chief last week to, yet again, offer my condolences for another youth who had taken their life because they didn't believe there was any opportunity in the north. They had given up, and quite literally there was gold under their feet.

It pisses me off. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but it does. I get frustrated when we have people pushing an antidevelopment message without understanding the social cost of that.

I would like, sir, for you to speak to what the development of mines in the north would bring, far beyond just the economics. Of course, if you increase wages, people can afford more things. They can afford more food. Could you speak to the overall social well-being that would be lifted by increasing mineral exploration and mineral development in the territories?

[Gary Vivian]

I agree with all of your statements regarding Ontario. I have significant experience in northern Ontario as well. I am an Ontarian by birth, but I have lived in the NWT for over 45 years.

Social well-being is a critical aspect that mining companies need to get a grasp on, to be quite honest. If you used the Tłı̨chǫ and the Akaitcho in the NWT as examples, they could speak very well to the social well-being of having opportunities at the mines. The two-in, two-out operation has worked very well, and it creates great social well-being for them.

The problem is that when there are only two or three operational mines, it limits the amount of capacity for a community to supply. That's why having businesses that also provide opportunities to the mines such as fuel, concrete and all of those things.... Those are all delivered by indigenous businesses in the NWT. Those are the opportunities that I think communities and the mining companies need to start spending more time trying to develop.

I think social well-being from a mine can create great opportunities in the communities. We see that in the four Tłı̨chǫ communities and in all four Akaitcho communities that have been involved with the diamond mines. Social well-being is a good opportunity for mine development.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I appreciate that very much.

You spoke about the infrastructure gaps, and I understand them very well. When we look at what the world needs in terms of resources, the world wants more resources. Canada has resources, but there's a lack of exploration, as you pointed out. Can you speak more to what policies beyond infrastructure hold back resource development in Canada?

[Gary Vivian]

Wow. That question could take more than five minutes to answer. It's a question about really meeting the need of today, and that's affordability.

Specifically, it's the permitting system. I would think that the permitting system in the NWT is one of the best in the world, but it is not easy. It's not simple, and there's not an easy process to get through it.

The thing that worries me a little is streamlining permitting. Now that you have all the indigenous communities onside with the permitting situation, how do you go in and streamline permitting? You're telling them that you want to advance something quickly. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when that happens, to be quite honest.

I don't think that's an easy answer. It's actually a harder question. I truly believe that the long-term effect of bringing a mine into production is the fault of permitting and the fault of having no infrastructure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next we have MP Earle.

You have five minutes.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I really appreciate the testimony, Mr. Vivian, and the questions from my colleagues on both sides. Please don't take my questions as being negative towards mining.

I'm the member of Parliament for Labrador, where we mine for nickel, copper and cobalt. We have the second-largest iron ore mine in the world. I know you know it very well.

I'm drawn back to your earlier testimony and to some of the leading questions that talked about 30% of land being set aside to do anything but mining. You'd be familiar with that. In Labrador, the Inuit gifted back to Canada a significant portion of land in the north. It became a national park to drive economic value for Inuit, Canadians and the world.

Relying on UNDRIP and the mandate of the duty to consult and free, prior and informed consent.... I want to ask you some questions around that, because I'm drawn to an opportunity on the border of my riding in Lac Brisson or Strange Lake, where geologists like you have gone in to look for rare earth elements. There are a lot of them there. They forgot a very important policy, and Inuit have said, “Not now.”

Tying this back to the mandate and scope of this study, how do we get this right so that people who live in those communities and see an opportunity to work on an exploration project have a job tomorrow? Sometimes, because of the failure of a company leading a project, they're unemployed, and that certainly impacts affordability.

[Gary Vivian]

I'm sorry, Mr. Earle. I'm trying to understand your question. Are you asking me about the short-term nature of jobs in exploration?

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

No, I'm looking for your knowledge. You introduced yourself as having worked very closely with first nations and indigenous people. You're a geologist who's done a lot of work in the north. I'm telling you that it's my experience that many of these companies don't get it right. It leads to the anticipation of having employment, but because it's not done right, it leads to the disappointment of losing a job.

How can we do better?

[Gary Vivian]

My simple answer to that is something I said earlier. NWT and Nunavut have a co-management system wherein companies and indigenous communities—I hate to say “indigenous” because it's Dene, Métis and Inuit—have the opportunity to meet and have honest conversations about what's being done by the mining company. That's an opportunity for questions and concerns to come out. The communities have to get those addressed during the process of establishing a mine. If those aren't addressed properly, you will always have an issue between the mining company and the community.

I think the co-management system that has been operating for 30 years in Nunavut and NWT has built a really good base for industry and the communities to get together when establishing a mine. They actually come closer to being partners than having a relationship, to be quite honest.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I have about a minute and 15 seconds left.

Drawing again on experience, let's say a small community of 150 people has a small grocery store, and half a dozen geologists show up to do a project and buy their supplies from that local store. If the project goes on for four to six weeks, by extension, sometimes because of supply and demand, this drives up the price in that particular grocery store.

Is there a better way geologists or junior mining companies can find a supply of food so that, one, it benefits the community and, two, it doesn't impact the cost of living in that community?

[Gary Vivian]

That's a bit tough. The bottom line is that a lot of those smaller communities only have air transport to supply food and other major needs like fuel. Either it's a small barge across Great Slave Lake or someone is flying into the community. I think the only way you can address that is with better infrastructure, like larger planes that can access smaller communities to get food in at a cheaper rate—though nothing is cheap when you're flying.

My biggest thought about how to lower the cost of food for people in communities with exploration is by using the exploration people themselves. There's an economy of scale. We do it in Délı̨nę. Every time we fly out there, we take food into the community.

There are opportunities, but they're hard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

MP Gill, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My colleague has given me an opportunity to talk about a topic that may be related and that is of great interest to mining regions, and falls within the current study.

In Quebec, we also welcome these projects. A lot of people commute back and forth to work in our communities. However, the wealth does not benefit the communities. In a way, we are happy to have these projects. Some people will get jobs in these projects, but most of the people are set up in camps and stay there for only a few weeks. Obviously, their salaries are very good. My riding is home to the wealthiest RCM in Quebec, Caniapiscau, which is located right next to Mr. Earle's riding, that is, the riding of Labrador. We share the Labrador Trough. The fact remains that we would like people to stay in the community, for mining workers to stay in the community, precisely so that they can enrich the community. We also want people in the community to be able to find work, both non-indigenous and indigenous people, of course.

How can we keep a lot of this wealth in the communities so that they can grow? Of course, we do not just want them to survive; we want them to be able to grow and benefit from this development.

I know you talked about co-management. I find that extremely interesting as well. I will give you the rest of my speaking time to tell us about that.

[Gary Vivian]

That's a great question, because we face that all the time in the north—in NWT and Nunavut. How come we're flying in and flying out people who live in Halifax or those other places? The GNWT made a mistake when it allowed that to happen. The mines should have enforced the idea that if they want to work at the mine site, they need to live within a certain distance. We have communities that could actually support that. The biggest problem is that the mines aren't enforcing it.

Part of the commitment to a community should be asking for people who work at the mine, the mine staff, to live somewhere within a radius of the mine site and not flying them in from 600 miles away. That's the way you get value in the communities. It's a way you can grow honesty and integrity in the communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Next we have MP Kronis for five minutes, please.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Canada talks a lot about protecting land and developing critical minerals. I want to ask you about how those goals fit together.

My colleagues across the table have been asking you about better ways to accomplish our goals to provide for sustainability and affordability in the north. In your experience, do you think it would be beneficial for us to first know what mineral resources are present in the north before governments decide to permanently close large areas to development?

[Gary Vivian]

That's a pretty simple question. Thank you for that. I would say yes.

There are obviously some areas that are so archaeologically significant to the communities that they want them to be no-go areas. Industry certainly understands that, but there are way too many opportunities where significant pieces of land are removed without a proper assessment being done before that land is removed in perpetuity. Removing that land in perpetuity removes benefits to the community.

There should be a better assessment for putting that land, in perpetuity, out of touch to industry. In a lot of cases, it's not being done.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

You talked about elevated expenses in the north. What happens in this environment where everyone knows that 30 by 30 is coming? What happens when companies aren't sure whether land will be available for development in the future? You've talked about a steady decline in exploration over the last few years. How does this—“threat” is not the right word—promise of 30 by 30 and the closure of areas impact exploration in the north?