Industry Committee on Aug. 14th, 2020

[Philip Landon]

We're doing some thinking right now as to what the coming 10 years are going to look like. A lot of the values of the university remain there—critical thinking, research, innovation, building the leaders for tomorrow—but some of the actual job markets that come out of that are changing and shifting, and the universities are all looking at how to build back better from this pandemic.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Okay.

Just quickly, how do the restrictions on Canadian university campuses compare with those in the U.S. or in other countries?

[Philip Landon]

It's a little difficult for me to comment on that. I would say that our universities, like our country, have taken a prudent approach, a careful approach and a data-driven, science-first, health-first approach, probably more so compared with those to the south of us. With the European countries, I'm not as sure.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you for that. I really appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, MP Patzer.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Erskine-Smith.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

First, I just wanted to note, in light of today's news, that I think it's interesting that the Competition Bureau is investigating, because in June 2019 our international committee on big data and privacy, joined by parliamentarians from other countries, had Amazon attend before us and we put questions to them. I remember Raj Saini asked probably the most pointed questions on the competition issues of Amazon at the time. It's interesting that the Competition Bureau has undertaken it. I think it's a useful thing for this committee to look at, and maybe to look broadly at strengthening our competition laws along the way, in light of recent meetings.

My first question is in relation to IP strategy.

On May 24, Natalie Raffoul and Jim Hinton wrote in the Globe, “Canadians picking up the tab for foreign companies' research is a familiar and systemic problem, especially for strategically valuable technologies such as 5G and artificial intelligence.” One example they noted was this: “Public funding via Dalhousie University experts has contributed a slew of patented inventions that are the basis for Tesla's new 'million-mile' battery.” They point to what they call a “unique disease”: “the propensity for Canadian taxpayers to fund and create ideas that other countries commercialize.”

I'm interested in Mr. Landon's view on this. I know much of this work is ultimately provincial, and the provincial government in Ontario has taken some steps recently, but I wonder if you would have any view on the federal steps that could be taken on this subject matter.

[Philip Landon]

Thanks very much.

There's a pretty complex ecosystem around how Canadian universities use IP strategies and the policies. We have examples on campuses where the IP rests with the creator, with the student or the faculty member. Also, we have examples where it rests with the institution. I think there are pluses and minuses in each case, as to how eventually the IP gets translated into value.

One of the things we're really looking for is more support for knowledge mobilization in Canada. We're not doing as good a job of this as we could: taking the IP, taking the ideas, and then translating that into the local communities and into the local economy. We're pushing to have a knowledge mobilization fund, similar to something they're doing in the U.K. right now, which would help Canadian universities work closely with their local markets, both the social and the economic markets, so that they can translate their work into viable products and the betterment of the economy.

Some of the other rectors and presidents may want to answer on the specifics of IP policies on their campuses.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

In light of those comments, where there are different strategies within different universities—and obviously you've referenced the U.K.—I would maybe put this to each one of you, starting with Mr. Martel, and then Mr. McCauley and Mr. Landon: Within Canada, what would you identify as a best practice that you would like to see federal and provincial governments work together on to make the best practice and standard?

Internationally, could you identify a best practice for us to look at as well?

[Dr. Ed McCauley]

Maybe I can begin.

As Philip mentioned, the ecosystem is really complex at all our institutions. At the University of Calgary, we have an inventor-owned IP policy, because that encourages innovation. What we try to do as a university is put those support mechanisms to enable individual scholars—whether it be students, faculty or staff who have ideas—to mobilize that as quickly as possible. I think it's a combination of the IP and also getting the innovation ecosystem in place to actually support that with encouraging incentives to attract capital to move these ideas forward, whether they be for profit or not for profit.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Does anyone else have anything to add?

[Denis Martel]

Yes, I would like to add something.

Much of the current system needs to be reviewed, at least in Quebec and certainly throughout Canada. Intellectual property poses a complex and difficult challenge. Depending on the area of research, awareness isn't necessarily the same when it comes to social, technological and biomedical innovation. A more flexible model is needed, one that varies according to the type of innovation in question.

[Magda Fusaro]

If I may jump in, I would say that Canada is quite progressive in its Copyright Act reforms, but the last reform wasn't completed. Universities had a hand in the process, with Universities Canada submitting briefs.

The work on the act is unfinished; the review was done, but now it's time to finish the job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

MP Gray, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have a question that I'd like to pose to all of our witnesses here today. I've heard from a number of students in my riding about the issue of mental health and socialization, and how learning from home and being away from the classroom environment with their peers, as well as reduced extracurricular activities, may affect their ability to succeed. What steps have all the witnesses here today undertaken with their respective institutions to help students with their mental health and social connections, both during this pandemic and moving forward?

We'll start with Ms. Fusaro.

[Magda Fusaro]

That's a great question. We've actually stepped up our efforts by holding virtual coffee breaks and meetings, as well as offering mentorship, tutoring and assistantship. We've made it easier for students to take advantage of all the available supports, whether through their teachers or colleagues in various groups.

That wasn't enough, though, because what students needed most was mental health support. In other words, the number of requests for psychological counselling literally went through the roof in March, April and May. We've focused the bulk of our efforts, initially, on expanding remote access to services, with sessions being conducted that way.

In addition, as you know, we had to respond in real time, so we were constantly monitoring the situation to make appropriate services available. We then offered integrated options. That's the direction we'll be heading in come the fall, incorporating a bit of classroom learning. I say “a bit” because Montreal is, after all, closed off, with a lot more cases than other parts of the province. We're proceeding very carefully so as not to cause another outbreak, of course.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great, thank you.

Mr. Ratto.

[Prof. Matt Ratto]

My responsibilities are fewer, I think, than those of many of the folks here, who are obviously responsible for many more students. Within my own faculty and within the bachelor's degree program that I ran up until recently, we focused on reaching out individually to most of the students. I run a primarily graduate faculty. Our undergraduate cohort is very small; we only had 15 students this year. It was the first year. We were somewhat insulated from these overall problems.

We did find, though, that in fact the mental health issues that many of the students faced were somehow related to real-world issues. A major one that we encountered was a concern about their plans for work-integrated learning. We doubled down on our focus and resources associated with work-integrated learning and made sure that all of our students had opportunities for co-ops and other forums that really would help them. We found that those kinds of real-world things solved more problems than just addressing the mental issues themselves.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great, thank you.

Mr. McCauley, go ahead.

[Dr. Ed McCauley]

Yes, like my colleagues, we ramped up significantly right away the mental health supports, not only for our domestic students but also for the international students we had. We still have about 500 international students who decided to stay and maintain residence to complete their studies, so we wanted to make sure they had the services necessary.

What I've been most impressed with is how our students themselves, our undergraduates and our graduate students, have self-organized groups, including Zoom dances, Zoom plays and things like that. We've been trying to make sure that they have the resources to connect and to help one another.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Landon, do you have anything else to add for the universities you represent?

[Philip Landon]

I think perhaps Mr. Martel might answer. I really don't have anything to add. I think they've given a very good cross-section of what's happening on the campuses.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That's great. Thank you.

On a similar theme, I'm wondering if anyone can let us know today.... If there were some resources or some different external programs available, what would those look like? Where do you see the greatest need...that might assist with this?

I'll just open it up for anyone who wants to chime in.

[Dr. Ed McCauley]

As I mentioned earlier—I know Philip talked about it, as well as Universities Canada and U15—work-integrated learning opportunities right now would be incredibly helpful, as would be upskilling for individuals who want to develop, for example, micro credentials to actually transform their life journey or their work trajectory. I think those types of programs would be very beneficial.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you. I think we're out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

We are, unfortunately.

We'll now go to MP Ehsassi.

You have the floor for five minutes.