Industry Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2021

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

This signifies to me that the smaller ISPs are really stepping up, and you highlighted that in your comments. That's about twice as much as the others.

You also brought the concept of settlement patterns into it. In your previous comment you mentioned that this model might not apply to all regions, because the settlement pattern varies on a regional level. As we get further north, where it is much harder and there's not as strong a business case for us to be able to get the fibre backbone, what type of approach do you suggest? Do you still suggest the model you've suggested here, the open source? Will that help?

You also talked about technology choices, as your fourth element. You said the technology might vary depending on the region. Can you comment on the applicability of this model as a strategy, as we get to the northern and more remote and separated areas?

[Barry Field]

My knowledge base is southwestern Ontario. I know southwestern Ontario settlement patterns well, not so much the rest of Canada. That's part of my argument here, that the knowledge of what exists regionally and what's needed regionally is stronger than at a national level.

If you're talking about the SWIFT model and its applicability to other regions, again, elements of the SWIFT model could be applied to other jurisdictions. The technology piece goes to the heart of what I'm talking about. You can't say there's a mix of 80% fibre and 20% wireless in one region, therefore it's applicable across the country. You have to look at the specific nature of the region and develop a technology approach that makes sense for that region.

In northern Ontario—I'm speculating here—that mix of wireless might need to be higher or lower, depending on the situation, the point being that the regional companies, the regional municipalities there, know their needs better than I do sitting in southwestern Ontario.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I have about 45 seconds, and I want to go to affordability. I do acknowledge that you said accessibility in that region is the area of your focus.

Can you share with us how affordability is being considered part of the solution? It's not only accessibility because I'm sure that cost plays a big role for the end consumer.

[Barry Field]

Within the SWIFT program we do touch on affordability a little. I'm very aware that I'm not a regulator and I have no authority to be a regulator, but we do have a contract with the ISPs for a period of seven years after they implement the network. We mandate in that contract that they offer a 50/10 package at a rate no more than, I believe, $115. Don't quote me on that. It's very close to that, $115 per month—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Field.

We'll now go to the next round of questions.

Mr. Lemire, you have two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Péladeau, you said that Bell Canada had used obstruction tactics. In your opinion, the federal and Quebec governments want to connect people through mechanisms that still favour the former monopolies.

Can the federal government adjust its mechanisms, its regulations, to stop favouring these former monopolies?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

Yes, you're right about the Quebec government. As I mentioned, it intervenes, but without any real ammunition, since this is an area of federal jurisdiction. This means that the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, or CRTC, or the industry, meets with Bell Canada in a systematic way. Here and elsewhere, it would be a matter of using regulatory power to force Bell Canada to use the necessary means to promote competition.

Earlier, I had the opportunity to answer a question from your colleague regarding third-party Internet access services, or TPIA. The CRTC has effectively applied this in the case of resellers. So there is regulatory power, but you have to have the courage to use it. Competition drives prices down. This has been demonstrated for a long time. If we prevent the public from having access to other choices, and therefore to competition, prices will remain high and products will unfortunately continue to be of poor quality.

The infrastructure is owned by Bell Canada. I didn't necessarily have the opportunity to say this earlier, but here in Quebec, we can compare the situation. In fact, the pole infrastructure is owned by two companies: Hydro-Québec and Bell Canada. Why is it that we have no problem, or so little, with Hydro-Québec, with whom we don't compete because we don't sell electricity, but we have to deal all the time with the objections of Bell Canada, with whom we compete and who obviously prefers to sell the service? Bell Canada is always late. If it can hold back investment, unfortunately, it's the public who suffers the consequences.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I have one last question for you.

Programs exist at the federal level, at the CRTC and in the industry. There are quite a number of them, and it's quite complex. In some cases, there are specific aspects concerning indigenous people. There are also some in the Quebec government.

Wouldn't it be simpler for the federal government to send this money to the Quebec government and have it go to a service provider like you?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

I think Mr. Field also mentioned that. I would suggest that using a single regulatory authority would make the process much more efficient. Because these are technical issues, the more people involved, the more complicated it will be. Ultimately, this will help to slow down implementation.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

Mr. Boulerice, welcome to the committee. You have two and a half minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

Mr. Péladeau, I'm a proud customer of your new product, Helix. I imagine you'll be pleased to hear that.

You said that increased competition is driving prices down. As far as cellphone prices are concerned, I haven't had the impression in recent years that Quebeckers and Canadians were well served by this increased competition, which was encouraged at the time by the Conservatives.

I want to talk about access to high-speed Internet service in certain regions of Quebec. Some of my colleagues said earlier that the pandemic and the need to telework has made high-speed Internet access a mandatory service, almost a public service that our businesses must offer. Everything we've done in the last few years hasn't worked. There are spaces and portions of territories where people don't have access to high-speed Internet.

Should we continue to do what we've been doing for the past 10 or 15 years, or should we put in place something a little more robust to serve our population, something that would require us to provide service in all regions?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

First of all, I'd like to thank you for your trust and loyalty. You've seen that the Helix service works with the remote control and voice recognition. I also have this service, coincidentally, and I think it's excellent.

You talked about access to Internet service, but there are other products that telecommunications companies are called upon to provide to consumers. One of them is cable television, which is extremely important because, as you probably know, it also funds Canadian television production. If the footprint of our cable operators diminishes day by day, the Canadian and Quebec audiovisual landscapes will shrink and become more fragile, unfortunately.

If I say that, it's because the investment effort is important. Vidéotron has always made them and wants to continue to do so. Does it cost more to build a door when you're 25 kilometres from the network? Of course it does. We try to do our best, but, as English-speakers would say,

there are only so many things a man can do.

We're going to continue to roll out our services. It's also important to mention that current customers, who always want more, want more throughput and speed. We've never let our customers down, and we intend to continue that trend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Généreux, you have five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First, I would like to apologize to the interpreters. Unfortunately, I have to work from my iPad and the audio is not the best.

Mr. Péladeau, thank you for joining us. When your competitor Bell Canada became aware of the CRTC decision in August 2019 to cap rates, the company threatened to reduce its investments by 20%, especially in rural areas. As you know, my constituency of Montmagny—L’Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup is in an area served in part by your company.

Did you also decide to reduce your expansion plans when you learned of the CRTC decision?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

You are right to mention that. In my presentation, I was able to describe the problem with the resellers. For decades, Quebec and Canada have benefited from a first-class telecommunications network. I feel that it is extremely important for the productivity of our businesses, of which you have many in your constituency. You were also right to mention that Vidéotron offers a high-quality service to a part of your constituency. Our intention is to continue to serve the people of that region.

Investments have been made and others will have to be made in the future. If we are dealing with resellers, whose only mission is to be parasites on the system that those who developed it have invested in, it has an adverse effect on that ability to continue to invest in order to provide superior quality services to companies, to residents and to private individuals.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I am sorry for interrupting you, Mr. Péladeau, but you are essentially saying that the main function of the parasites—actually I wouldn't call them parasites—the resellers, is not to invest in the infrastructure. It penalizes you, given that you do invest a lot in the infrastructures. Is that accurate?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

The government also wondered about the basis of the decision, that is whether the CRTC had used the appropriate tools. The point we wanted to make is that we are not necessarily against resellers existing, but the conditions under which they exist must be fair and equitable.

Unfortunately, the decision that was made resulted in those conditions not being met. You should also know that the same conditions don't actually apply to the resellers. It all needs to be reworked. I feel that the government has realized that. There must be some new thinking. We welcome competition, but the competition must not jeopardize the investment and the technological developments that will give the public the best quality product at the best possible price.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I understand, but my constituency has 58 municipalities, of which about 15 are served by Vidéotron. Some of them have “backwaters”, if I may use that expression. These areas are quite big.

How much per month should those people pay for it to be really profitable to invest in those “backwaters” at the far ends of each municipality?

How much should they really have to pay to get Vidéotron's services, for example?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

First, there has to be access to the infrastructure. That's extremely important. Unfortunately, we are sometimes blocked because the infrastructure, meaning the poles, belongs to Bell Canada.

As we said earlier, programs do exist. The federal government has one. Quebec has the Régions branchées program, with which we are working to serve what I too will call the “backwaters”, because everyone knows what it means. Of course, the further away the backwaters are, the higher the cost to bring optical fibre to the users there.

How do we find a balance between government support and what the company is able to provide? Today, the modalities of the Régions branchées program are being discussed. We have spoken with Mr. Field about the conditions for requests for proposals, the calls for tender, that would ensure that the public receives the service. The same issues apply today with the Régions branchées program.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

The floor now goes to Ms. Lambropoulos for five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for taking part in today's meeting and for answering our questions.

Mr. Péladeau, I think that Mr. Lemire already asked this question, but you may have something to add.

You talked a lot about competition and its importance, and about the fact that Bell Canada often blocks you in some regions of Quebec.

What could the federal government do to unblock the situation, so that you can provide your services in all regions of Quebec? I know you have already answered the question to an extent, but do you have anything to add?

[Pierre Karl Péladeau]

I will repeat that the CRTC has tools, including a mechanism that allows them to call in witnesses and provide details of the problematic situation that we have to deal with. To this point, the CRTC has not seen fit to do that. Clearly, more pressure needs to be applied.

It is important to point out that Vidéotron is not the only telecommunications company affected. There are a number of others, including Cogeco and Maskicom. There are also cooperatives all over Quebec that have to deal with the same problems. In my opinion, that is why the CRTC should live up to its responsibilities, call in Bell Canada, and find ways to make the competition and the investments happen in a way that benefits Quebeckers and Canadians.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

During this pandemic, we are all depending on the Internet much more than we did before, we are using our cell phones much more, and we need a good connection at home.

During this pandemic, have you taken any steps to make the services more affordable for Quebeckers and Canadians?