Evidence of meeting #5 for Subcommittee on International Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was china.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
That is very interesting. Thank you very much, Mr. Mendes.
Ms. Alexeeva, the Uighur population in Xinjiang has been oppressed by the Chinese government for decades, but the international community has only paid attention in recent years.
Can you explain why it has taken so long for the international community to pay attention to what is going on right now in Xinjiang?
12:50 p.m.
Sinologist and Professor of Contemporary Chinese History, Université du Quebec à Montreal, As an Individual
For many years, since the 1980s and 1990s, the Chinese government has totally cut off all communications related to the Uighurs' problems and what is happening in Xinjiang.
After September 11, 2001, when the international community committed to fighting international Islamist terrorism, China very skilfully portrayed what it was doing in Xinjiang as part of international efforts to combat terrorism. In a sense, it used the international community's actions to cover up what it was doing in Xinjiang.
The Uighurs were really having a hard time getting out of China. To leave China, you need a passport and authorization. The Chinese confiscated the Uighur activists' passports. This was before the Internet made it easier to communicate, so people knew very little about the situation. The international community was so focused on fighting Islamist terrorism that it somewhat missed what happened. People were also much more focused on human rights issues in Tibet, so the situation in Xinjiang got a lot less media coverage. In addition, the problem was not as big as it is today.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Conversely, we have noticed that many people are now watching the situation. This subcommittee meeting is proof of that.
How are the leaders reacting to the fact that what's going on in Xinjiang is now getting a great deal of attention?
12:50 p.m.
Sinologist and Professor of Contemporary Chinese History, Université du Quebec à Montreal, As an Individual
China denies that it is repression. It is still saying the same thing, that it is fighting terrorism. The Chinese always say that other countries are doing the same thing, citing the United States's Patriot Act as an example, so they will not be criticized about it. Every time people try to criticize China about the issue, to defend itself, China talks about laws or practices that it feels are similar. I am thinking, in particular, of Guantanamo.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Ms. McPherson, you have five minutes. You'll be our final questioner for this panel.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much to all of the witnesses. This has been very interesting. I really appreciate the propositional nature of our conversation today.
I wanted to touch on something we heard yesterday.
We heard some very harrowing testimony from some of our witnesses on the use of sexual violence and rape within the territory. I'm wondering, Ms. Alexeeva, if you could comment on that and share any information you may have on that particular topic.
12:50 p.m.
Sinologist and Professor of Contemporary Chinese History, Université du Quebec à Montreal, As an Individual
I am aware of acts like that, but I have never met or interviewed anyone who has been subjected to such violence. I repeat once again that this is nothing new. This type of violence against other minorities and the Uighurs has been happening for a long time. It's just that, now, the situation is so grave we can no longer ignore it.
Perhaps Ms. Kanji would have more information about it.
12:55 p.m.
Legal Academic and Journalist, As an Individual
When it comes to sexual violence against Uighur women, we know, for example, that there are government programs to have Han Chinese officials live in the houses of Uighur people in Xinjiang and even sleep in the bedrooms of Muslim women whose husbands have been detained in the concentration camps.
There's also a great push for intermarriage between Han Chinese men and Uighur women.
Since the jurisprudence of the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, sexual violence and rape have been recognized as genocidal acts. I think when we see these very deliberate efforts to transform the Uighur population towards a Han Chinese one, both through the deliberate in-migration of settlers to Xinjiang as well these biological efforts at population engineering, they are very strong signals of the type of genocidal intent described in the genocide convention.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Can I ask, in terms of intermarriage and some of the sexual violence that's perpetrated in this area, with regard to the suppression of women's reproductive rights, does that still apply to these intermarriages, or is there a different reality for that?
Ms. Kanji.
12:55 p.m.
Legal Academic and Journalist, As an Individual
The information that we have about the sterilization campaign is very new. It's based on official documents, and there is also still a great deal that we don't know. As I've said, a lot of what is happening in Xinjiang is subject to a great deal of secrecy. The information that we do have about the sterilization campaigns indicates that they are applied particularly to areas in Xinjiang where Uighur women are living, and that areas with more Han populations aren't subject to the same types of measures. When it comes specifically to these practices of intermarriage, I don't know that we have information about whether the sterilization campaigns are being imposed in the same way.
Perhaps Professor Alexeeva has more information on this.
12:55 p.m.
Sinologist and Professor of Contemporary Chinese History, Université du Quebec à Montreal, As an Individual
As Ms. Kanji was saying, that is what we are hearing. We know little about it at the moment, but the fact remains that sterilization campaigns have been going on since the 1980s, that is, since the birth control policy came into effect. The policy was particularly enforced in Xinjiang and Tibet, despite everything the Chinese government may have said. Officially, Beijing said that the policy never involved minorities, but the reality is quite different. Sterilization campaigns have been going on for decades.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Thank you.
This concludes our first panel of witnesses. On behalf of the entire committee, we want to thank you for your testimony, your insight and your advocacy.
At this time we are going to suspend for the next 15 minutes or so.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
Welcome back, everybody. We have our second panel of witnesses with us.
I just want to say that we've had some really amazing, tremendous witnesses come forward over the last day and a half. I know this is going to be the same with our next witnesses, who are going to give us their own personal stories and accounts of what they have seen and heard and learned.
Both of our next witnesses are Uighur-speaking and do not speak English. We do have a Uighur interpreter. Kayum Masimov is with us today in person. Of course, our witnesses are via video conference.
We also have with us Omerbek Ali, a Uighur rights activist. We also have Ms. Gulbahar Jelilova, who is also a Uighur rights activist.
Before they get started, I also want to say that with consecutive Uighur interpretation, it's going to take a little bit longer. Translation is consecutive because of interpreter availability and technology considerations. There need to be six booths for consecutive third language, and because of physical distancing, it's only possible to have four booths. So when asking your questions, please pause to allow for interpretation time.
The study is now being televised via the House of Commons website.
We're going to start with an opening statement from Omerbek Ali.
You'll have approximately six minutes, but we'll accommodate. That does not include the consecutive interpretation time.
1:15 p.m.
Omerbek Ali Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
My greetings. I am in Holland right now. My name is Omerbek Ali. I was born on April 30, 1976, in Pichan County of the city of Turpan. I have a degree from the high technical college.
I was employed in the city of Karamay until 2006. While employed, I was subjected to wage discrimination. I was not able to live a normal life without sinning in disaccord with my religious Muslim beliefs. Because of my ethnic background and religious beliefs, I was constantly taken into custody and interrogated by police every month and even on a weekly basis. My house was repeatedly searched by police, and I was not even able to go out to the street as my ID was blacklisted. Because of all these barriers in my life, to continue living in a dignified manner I was forced to immigrate to Kazakhstan.
Up to 2014, I was involved in textile commerce and then I moved to furniture commerce and up to 2017 I was employed at Tumar travel agency as its deputy director, as a tourist guide and a Chinese language interpreter all at the same time.
In 2017, there was an Expo Astana exhibition and on an invitation from the Chinese side, I travelled to Urumqi. Once our business meetings were conducted and were over, I went to see my parents on March 25 around 11 p.m.
At 10 a.m., five policemen came to forcefully detain me, although they had no warrant for such an arrest on them. They brought me to the police station where they took away all my cash, my passport and all ID. From there they took me to another place that resembled a hospital. There I was subjected to a very close examination of my skin, kidneys, liver and urine.
All this time I had a black hood on my head. I was not able to see anyone. I became very afraid. Then they removed my black hood and they started examining my iris, my eyes. I became very afraid. I got the impression, seeing this kind of close examination, that I would be slaughtered.I became very afraid. Even now when I see white medical gowns, I am afraid. That is why I don't go to any hospitals for any reason.
The same evening I was taken to the county prison. About 30 or so men were detained like me. We were given one small steamed bun and a watery soup to eat for breakfast. For lunch we were given a boiled vegetable resembling an eggplant and again a small steamed bun. The same was given for supper. To get that food, we had to sing three Red songs before and after the meal. These songs were about the Communist Party and Xi Jinping, and in Chinese it goes, “Thanks are given to the CCP, to the motherland, to President Xi. Wishing President Xi good health, wishing the motherland prosperity and strength, wishing unity and harmony to the people of our country”.
On April 3, I was taken to another basement of the prison in Karamay city at police headquarters. There I was subjected to very cruel tortures. I was electrocuted. I was hung up. I was whipped with wires. Needles were inserted. I was beaten with rubber batons and pliers were used on me. Under all these savage torture tools I was forced to confess to crimes I have never committed. The accusations were crimes against national security, inciting, organizing and covering up for terrorist activities. They were even telling me I was trying to build a terrorist organization or I took terrorists under my wing. Patronage accusations were brought against me.
I categorically refused to sign these documents. I insisted on my innocence. I asked them why I was forced to confess to crimes I did not do, why they were torturing me, that I am an innocent man. They asked if I was a Kazakh, a Muslim, a Uighur. They said there is no difference, that we're all terrorists, and they forced me to sign documents. I resisted signing these papers.
Along with me, there were other detainees. In one cell, there were about 37 to 40 people. In one hallway, there were 17 cells. There were 34 wings on each side, with four more buildings like that. Anyone who was detained in these places was forced to confess to such crimes, which they did not commit. They were all subjected to torture. Psychologically, it was very demanding. No person would come out in good health after seeing such education.
1:30 p.m.
Kayum Masimov Head, Uyghur Canadian Society
It was too fast. I couldn't keep up. I'll try to wrap up.
1:30 p.m.
Uyghur Rights Activist, As an Individual
[Witness spoke in Uighur, interpreted as follows:]
In Karamay city, which has a population of about 500, there were seven detention centres like this. In every detention centre, there were 5,000 to 6,000 detainees. I was moved around, and on top of the torture I was enduring, I was also handcuffed and had my feet shackled, so I had to carry about seven kilograms of heavy metal on my body at all times.
I spent seven months and 10 days in such a detention centre. There is no way that someone in good health will come out in good condition after seeing this. It's just heartbreaking. I have seen people disappear and be taken away. It was the daily experience we were living through.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca
I'll thank Mr. Ali for being with us. He is in Holland. Prior to joining us here, he had just come out of a 14-hour immigration meeting in Holland, so I thank him.
1:30 p.m.
Head, Uyghur Canadian Society
He's leaving now. He's thanking all of you, Mr. Chair.