Yes.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #48 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Yes.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
That is the case for some types of recidivism, where the individual who is convicted the first time is given a warning that if there were to be a second offence, a minimum sentence would apply. I am referring, for instance, to impaired driving. I understand that criminology principles and studies have established that this type of well-targeted short minimums may, indeed, have an effect on the crime rate.
5:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
I am not sure if I understood everything. Sometimes I am a bit hard of hearing. However, I think all the research data suggest that the are not at all effective, be they short or long, 14 days or 90 days.
I think it has been years. The fact we have some does not mean we based them on research data.
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I was misinterpreted. I can tell from your reaction.
There are some short minimums for reoffending, the most significant being impaired driving, a crime committed by people who are not necessarily criminals. Obviously, for a first offence, they do not know what the minimums are. However, if they are informed, after the first offence, that for a second offence, there will be jail time, it is generally believed that that has an effect on recidivism.
5:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Again, everything I have learned from various research points to the fact that criminal minds do not work that way. People act in an impulsive way, without thinking. They do not consider that given that they will spend 90 days in jail, they will not do something. They are not aware of things to that extent. The simple fact that it is recidivism does not mean that the legislation has not changed since then. It is really not their motivation.
You are really not realistic as to human beings and people who get involved in crime like this. When you know the population that is there, you know that that is really not what it is all about.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for being here.
Ms. Berzins, I don't think the letter that the churches sent to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Justice has been filed with this committee. Would you provide it to the clerk, so that it's part of the record with regard to this bill, please?
5:10 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Certainly, yes.
5:10 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
A PhD in psychology, clinical psychology.
5:10 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I haven't done clinical work for a long time. I did do clinical work, I guess 20 years ago now.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Is it safe to say you basically are doing research at this point?
5:10 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
That's correct.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
On the fourth item you referred to, the résumé, the abstract, I always think I was really lucky that I didn't have to take statistics as a prerequisite to getting a degree, because I don't think I would have passed it, but I do work hard on trying to understand numbers. Do I understand that individuals who are viewing child pornography, child-abusive material on the net, that a full one-third of them never commit any other crime? Is that the summary of what you've given us here?
5:10 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It would be higher than that. From the information here, about half of them would not have any record of a previous sexual offence, and they would also not admit to having committed or describe any other sexual offences under, in most cases, conditions where they're very likely to disclose that—for example, during a polygraph examination or truly voluntary treatment. So this is somebody who comes for treatment from a mental health provider with no criminal justice sanctions attached and no reporting requirements. So these are situations where people have done child pornography and have been involved in largely treatment settings and have been asked if they have done anything else. About half of them say yes and about half of them say no.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
So it would be close to 50%, then, rather than one-third who would not have committed another offence?
5:15 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Yes, another sex offence, that's correct. They may have committed other offences, but we're just looking at sex offences here.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Yes. And again, the mandatory minimums are directed in that way.
Dr. Hanson, the material that you have here, the study, was done....
5:15 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
It's in press. It's available online now. The hard copy should be out next month.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Do you have any sense of whether the Department of Justice looked at this before they drafted this bill?
5:15 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I have no opinion.
5:15 p.m.
Senior Research Scientist, Corrections and Criminal Justice, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
The information available in this report is a summary of studies that are out there. It includes all that we were able to identify. I cannot comment directly on the process the Department of Justice was involved in.
