Yes.
Evidence of meeting #137 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #137 for Justice and Human Rights in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
You already told us that you made contemporaneous notes detailing the conversations you had. Mr. Marques and Mr. Bouchard were clearly on this file, for the most part, on point. Did you have many meetings with them?
10:45 a.m.
As an Individual
No.
We looked through my calendar when I was preparing this testimony. I guess someone at the office looked through my calendar while I was preparing this testimony. We could find only one meeting I had on this file, internally.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Right.
What I'm troubled about, Mr. Butts, is that you've put out the view today that you were just asking the minister to take an external opinion to determine whether or not something or other.... I don't know what opinion was being sought.
It's interesting that you mentioned Beverley McLachlin in your written testimony as a potential person for external legal advice.
10:45 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes. I want to be clear on that, Ms. Raitt, because I don't want to put Ms. McLachlin or anybody in the government in a difficult position.
In no way.... That was meant in the context of the Jessica Prince meeting. I said it's someone like Beverley McLachlin.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
I see. Okay.
Back to my original question, though, Mr. Bouchard and Mr. Marques, and you, according to Jody Wilson-Raybould's testimony, kept looking for a solution—a “solution”—not external advice. It would seem that you determined that there was a problem. The Prime Minister—
10:45 a.m.
Lisa Raittt
—determined there was a problem. You communicated with the PMO that there was a solution that was needed. But you tell us today that you weren't looking for a solution or an action; you just wanted her to take another opinion. So who is right, Jody or you?
10:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I am not here to call anybody names, Ms. Raitt. But I really don't think I would have used that word. I really don't. I can't be one hundred per cent certain.
If there were any problem that I felt needed to be solved, it was to make sure that all due consideration was given to both options. That's all.
If I can add—and I think this is an important point, because people have made a lot of insinuations. I think they've been based on speculation. I don't have a strong opinion. Honestly, I don't envy either the former or the current Attorney General on this call. I really don't. I don't have a strong view either way.
10:50 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Okay.
Are you aware, Mr. Butts, that political considerations are not to be part of decision-making for the Attorney General?
10:50 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Why would the Prime Minister's Office, then, condone several conversations, including the Prime Minister himself, bringing these elements into discussions with the former attorney general?
10:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I think there's a grey area in what you think is a political consideration, but I think you're also alluding to conversations I wasn't part of. I certainly never made any comment of the sort.
10:50 a.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON
Thank you.
The Prime Minister never told you that he had made a point that he was an MP in Quebec, and Mr. Marques and Mr. Bouchard, or Mr. Chin, never told you that they told Ms. Wilson-Raybould it was about an election in Quebec; it was about winning votes in Quebec and concerns about votes in Quebec.
10:50 a.m.
As an Individual
Can I just have a moment to answer this? I think this is really important.
I respect you a lot, Ms. Raitt, and we've known each other a long time—not so well, but we're both from the same part of the country, as is Ms. May. We could have a fair bridge game if there were one more Cape Bretoner around this table.
You know, we grew up around the same time in the same place. We know what it's like to see a company or a community collapse. Can you imagine, when we were kids and the coal mines closed or the steel mill closed, if the best explanation someone could give us was that someone thought about it for 12 days in Ottawa? That's what concerned us. That is absolutely what concerned us. It was the first time the law was ever being used, and we just wanted to make sure that every due consideration was given to both options.
