Evidence of meeting #25 for Justice and Human Rights in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sport.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard
Sandy Hawley  Retired Thoroughbred Jockey, As an Individual
Paul Melia  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport
David Shoemaker  Chief Executive Officer and Secretary General, Canadian Olympic Committee, Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport
Keith Wachtel  Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League
Conal Berberich  Vice-President, Legal, National Hockey League
Bill O’Donnell  President, Central Ontario Standardbred Association
Dave Drew  Finance Committee Member, Central Ontario Standardbred Association
Gina Deer  Chief, Mohawk Council of Kahnawake
Michael Delisle Jr.  Chief, Mohawk Council of Kahnawake
John Levy  Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Score Media and Gaming Inc.
Renée Pelletier  Lawyer and Managing Partner, Olthuis Kleer Townshend, Mohawk Council of Kahnawake

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

I call this meeting to order. Welcome, everybody, to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

Once again we are on Bill C-218. The sponsor, Mr. Waugh, is with us today. He's replacing Mr. Cooper.

Welcome back, Kevin.

Mr. Masse, who is there in person, is replacing Mr. Garrison.

Welcome back.

As well, Vance Badawey is replacing Mr. Virani today.

Welcome, Vance. It's great to have you here today.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person who is speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. For Mr. Masse specifically, we ask that you please follow your guidelines and protocols with respect to distancing and such.

As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting. I thank members in advance for their co-operation. To ensure an orderly meeting, I will outline a few rules to follow.

For interpretation, you will see a choice at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Please select the language that you would like to listen to. You can speak in either of the official languages of your choice. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. With regard to the speaking list, I do have a speaking list that is available [Technical difficulty—Editor]

11 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard

Madam Chair, we've just lost you.

Mr. Moore, I think her connection dropped. I don't know if you want to take Madam Chair's relay to facilitate the proceedings.

Thank you in advance, Mr. Moore.

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Rob Moore

Sure. I just wish I knew what she was about to say.

At this point of the meeting, we would turn it over to our witnesses for their opening statements.

Mr. Clerk, maybe you could remind witnesses of the order in which they are going to be speaking as well as the amount of time given them to speak.

11 a.m.

The Clerk

The chair would start with Mr. Hawley. Mr. Hawley has five minutes to make his opening statements.

Please go ahead, Mr. Hawley.

11 a.m.

Sandy Hawley Retired Thoroughbred Jockey, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair and Mr. Moore.

My name is Sandy Hawley. I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to speak to you on behalf of the racing industry across Canada.

I was a professional thoroughbred jockey for 30 years, starting at the age of 19 years old. I rode around the world, but mostly in Canada and the United States. I have been lucky enough to receive a number of awards throughout my career, including the Order of Canada. I'm also a member of Canada's Sports Hall of Fame, the U.S. racing hall of fame and the Canadian Horse Racing Hall of Fame. Also, it was a great honour to receive the Lou Marsh award as Canada's athlete of the year in 1973 and 1976.

I'm speaking before you today from my winter residence in which happens to be one of the most historic racing jurisdictions in the world, Kentucky, home of the Kentucky Derby. Despite its rich history, racing here in Kentucky has also faced its challenges recently, but the industry now has a positive outlook thanks to historical horse racing which may single-handedly save the industry.

Horse racing has provided me the opportunity to race around the world and ended up by my meeting my lovely wife Kaoru, who is also a thoroughbred jockey.

As you can see, horse racing has been very good to me. This industry contributes $5.7 billion to the Canadian economy each year and supports over 50,000 jobs across Canada. These jobs depend on revenue from parimutuel wagering on the horse-racing industry. The revenue from [Technical difficulty—Editor] and secures many people's incomes, jobs and livelihoods. These include grooms, hot walkers, trainers, owners, blacksmiths, veterinarians, agriculture workers and jockeys, just to name a few.

There is a deep history of tradition in Canadian horse racing. In fact, just a few years ago, the Canadian horse industry celebrated its 250th anniversary.

I understand the world is changing, and sports betting happens all around the world. Although I'm not an expert in this area, it seems like it makes sense to legalize it so the government can regulate it and use it to create jobs and generate revenue.

I am in favour of single sports betting, but if not done correctly, it could be devastating to our industry and the many jobs within the agriculture and rural communities.

I've always been very proud of Canadian horse racing, notably Woodbine Racetrack, where I rode my first race back in 1968. Horsemen from around the world love to come to race at Woodbine Racetrack for its beautiful facility and hospitality.

I've also worked for Woodbine Entertainment for the last 25 years, since I retired from my riding career, as an ambassador in media and media relations, and I continue to do so.

I mentioned earlier that I spend my winters here in Lexington, Kentucky, where there's historical horse racing, whereby a wager can be made on an anonymous race that happened in the past. Basically it's the same thing as wagering in a live race, but instead there's no need of operating a live race. It uses thousands of anonymous races from the past, which probably include a few of mine, and offer it as a wagering experience for the customer. Similar to betting on a live race, some of the money is given back to the industry to help sustain it. Historical horse racing has literally been the saviour for horse racing in Kentucky, and I strongly believe historical horse racing can have some profound impact here in Canada.

I'm counting on the government to recognize the industry, its hard-working people, its value, and make the right decision on the amendment of Bill C-218 so that betting on horse racing would be excluded. Without the exclusion, it would kill the revenue stream that supports a sport, all the people and the businesses that depend on it. For instance, it would be like trying to drive an automobile without gas or a battery.

On behalf of the entire industry, I am asking this committee to ensure that horse racing has an opportunity not only to survive but also to thrive for another 250 years as it continues to be an important part of the daily lives of so many, as it has been to mine.

Thank you for your time this morning.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

Thank you very much, Mr. Hawley.

My apologies; I had some technical challenges.

I'll just introduce the rest of our witnesses.

We have, from the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport, Mr. Paul Melia, who is the president and chief executive officer. We have Mr. David Shoemaker, who is the chief executive officer and secretary general of the Canadian Olympics Committee. From the National Hockey League, we have Mr. Keith Wachtel, who is the chief business officer and senior executive vice-president of global partnerships; and Conal Berberich, vice-president, legal.

Welcome.

I didn't get to mention it before, but I have these one-minute and 30-second time cards that will help you understanding where you are in your five minutes.

I will call on the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport to proceed for five minutes, please.

March 23rd, 2021 / 11:05 a.m.

Paul Melia President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport

Thank you very much.

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

The Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport is pleased to be here today with the Canadian Olympic Committee with whom we've been collaborating to examine the impact of Bill C-218 on Canadian sport.

Through this short presentation the CCES will share with you concerns around the increased risk of match manipulation and ways to mitigate that risk. The COC will comment on the potential for revenue generation to support sport development in Canada.

The CCES supports Bill C-218 as we believe a regulated framework is needed to appropriately manage single event sport betting in Canada.

Technology and organized crime have combined over the years to render Canada's current laws regarding prohibition of single event betting all but meaningless. Single event betting on Canadian sports, including by Canadian residents, is already a multi-billion dollar a year business but most of the revenue is going to organized crime. Legalizing and regulating single event betting in Canada would be an effective harm reduction strategy. However, it also comes with associated risk to the safety of athletes and the integrity of Canadian sport.

If Bill C-218 is to move forward, the committee should be aware of the increased risk to athletes' safety and the integrity of sporting competitions posed by match manipulation. Legalized single event betting in Canada will increase the risk of match manipulation. Match manipulation is linked to organized crime, which takes advantage of vulnerable athletes, officials, coaches and other support staff to fix the outcome of sporting competitions.

This is a global issue, and it's already occurring in Canada. Many countries, such as Australia, Great Britain and Germany, are actively addressing match manipulation through legislation designed to prevent, detect and punish match fixing in sport. No such legislation, no such legislative framework, currently exists in Canada. The CCES therefore recommends that the passing of the bill be accompanied by the following specific actions to reduce the risk of match manipulation.

Canada should ratify the Council of Europe Convention on the Manipulation of Sports Competitions, which is open to non-European nations. Australia has done so.

The Government of Canada should require all federally funded sport organizations to: one, demonstrate they have rules in place to manage the risk of match manipulation, including disciplining those engaged in match fixing; and, two, demonstrate that all participants within their sport are educated about the risk.

Incremental costs to the Government of Canada and to federally funded sport organizations associated with the above two recommendations should be covered through the incremental revenue associated with single sport betting.

I will now turn it over to David.

11:10 a.m.

David Shoemaker Chief Executive Officer and Secretary General, Canadian Olympic Committee, Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport

The timing is right for Canada to expand sports betting. This bill has the potential to unlock new growth opportunities, reduce illegal betting and generate revenues for both the sport industry and governments. Our interests are in ensuring that single sport betting is introduced in a responsible, effective and profitable manner.

First is responsible, the impacts of Bill C-218 may include an increase in match manipulation and gambling, which we believe poses at least as much risk in amateur and Olympic sport where athletes don't earn big incomes and large amounts of betting still take place.

The International Olympic Committee has created a code on the prevention of manipulation of competitions. In 2020, together we organized a workshop in Canada on match manipulation. Many international sport organizations have established integrity units to safeguard their sports and to educate and protect athletes. A focus on protection and education will be required going forward. A portion of incremental tax revenues should be earmarked for mental health care and addiction education.

Second is profitable. Deloitte estimates that within five years of legalization, Canadian sport betting could grow to $28 billion a year. We must ensure that revenues are distributed back to the principal content providers that stage the events, in our case, a member national sport organization, many of whom operate on shoestring budgets, to enable them to provide increased support to athletes at all levels of the sport system.

Last is effective. National sport organizations will need support. In establishing infrastructure to ensure betting integrity and in monetizing all available channels, including partnerships with sport betting companies, media rights and data sales, we must equip sport organizations with the tools and support to capitalize on the expansion of sport betting.

We believe the expansion of betting options can be a game-changer and if we focus on betting being responsible, effective and profitable, we can all win.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

Thank you very much.

That was five minutes on the dot. I really appreciate that.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer and Secretary General, Canadian Olympic Committee, Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport

David Shoemaker

We worked at it.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

Thank you.

We'll now go to the National Hockey League.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Keith Wachtel Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League

Thank you, Madam Chair, and members of the committee.

My name is Keith Wachtel. I'm the chief business officer and senior executive vice-president of global partnerships at the National Hockey League. I'm here today with my colleague, Conal Berberich, a vice-president in our legal department.

We would like to thank you, Madam Chair, and the committee members, for inviting us here today to share with you the NHL's journey and experience on the topic of single-event sport wagering.

First, the National Hockey League supports Bill C-218, the proposed Canadian federal legislation to eliminate the provision in Canada's Criminal Code that prohibits provincial governments from offering wagering on a single sport event. Though the NHL had previously opposed single-event sports wagering, for the reasons we stated publicly on the record, the reality is that the landscape in North America has changed. Our experience in the United States since 2018 has demonstrated that a well-regulated marketplace that both advances and protects the interests of relevant constituencies can be established in a safe and responsible manner.

Since the Supreme Court of the United States' 2018 decision in Murphy v. the NCAA overturned the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act, the American Gaming Association reports that 25 states and the District of Columbia have passed legislation that permits, or will soon permit, single-event sports wagering. In that regard, we point to the growing number of commercial relationships that are being formed within the NHL, including U.S.-based league-level relationships with currently five, and soon to be more, major sports books.

As part of our league-wide policies that govern these relationships, sports books are required to, among other things, represent and warrant that they are licensed and legally compliant, including enforcing age verification and geo-gating requirements; taking appropriate steps to monitor wagering on the NHL and share information; offering only appropriate bet types; and promoting responsible gaming. As part of the NHL's U.S. efforts, we have partnered with industry trade groups and have committed resources in support of responsible gaming, including public service campaigns.

All interested constituencies are aware that such a change in the law governing sports betting in Canada will present both opportunities and certain challenges, as it has in the United States, as we collectively navigate the new sports betting landscape. Establishing a level playing surface across the North American sports betting landscape will promote transparency, fairness and responsibility for all stakeholders in the space, as well as for the public.

We believe that any sports betting legislation should provide a comprehensive framework that appropriately takes into account and adequately balances the diverse interests of the various constituencies. Accordingly, we strongly believe the key elements of any legislation should, among other things, provide for appropriate consumer protections and technological safeguards, for example, age and geographic restrictions, abuse or addiction hotlines and the like; ensure the protection of intellectual property rights; permit leagues and governing bodies to restrict the types and timing of bets that might be placed on games, for example, certain so-called prop bets that might lend themselves to a perception of inappropriate incentives or behaviour; and appropriately allocate resulting revenues across the various stakeholder groups.

Although the National Hockey League has no concerns regarding the integrity of our game, we take our responsibilities in this regard seriously, as reflected by the extensive, ongoing monitoring we undertake in the normal course, both internally and via leading global experts in the space, such as Sportradar.

The National Hockey League provides family entertainment and has worked tirelessly since its inception in 1917 to earn and maintain a reputation for the absolute integrity of its competition for the good of the sport and our fans, irrespective of any legislative changes across Canada and the United States related to single-event sports wagering. We prohibit, and will continue to prohibit, all National Hockey League employees and players from engaging in any wagering on National Hockey League games.

Madam Chair, thank you again. We look forward to the committee's questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

Thank you very much, Mr. Wachtel. That's 30 seconds to spare for you.

We'll now go into our first round of questions, starting with Madam Findlay for six minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I know you all have very busy lives, but we do appreciate it as we study this bill.

This question is for either of the NHL witnesses to answer.

The NHL voiced opposition—you mentioned this in your opening remarks—to Bill C-290, a similar bill to the one before us. That was back in 2012. I was on this very committee at the time, so I remember it, but that was then and this is now. I'm wondering if you want to take a little more time to explain why the NHL has changed its stance on single-event sports betting.

That is for Mr. Wachtel or Mr. Berberich.

11:20 a.m.

Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League

Keith Wachtel

Sorry, I was disconnected from the call, so I did not hear the question.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Madam Chair, can I do it again?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Iqra Khalid

Please go ahead.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

The NHL voiced opposition to Bill C-290 back in 2012 when I was also on this committee. That bill is similar to the one before us today. I know you touched on this before, but could you explain why the NHL has changed its stance on single-event sports betting?

I'm just giving you a little more time to speak to that.

11:20 a.m.

Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League

Keith Wachtel

Thank you. I'm glad you asked that question.

As we mentioned in our opening statement, a lot has changed since 2018. First, we're simply adapting to the evolving legal landscape. Second, the marketplace is changing dramatically. As such, we've been working collaboratively with all the stakeholders. There's been extensive technological innovation, increased partner sophistication and perhaps more importantly, a true understanding of how a regulated legal sports market can better promote responsibility and integrity versus a non-regulated market.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Thank you.

The NFL's written submission to our committee detailed the importance of requiring official league data to protect consumers and ensure integrity in the sports betting marketplace. In your view, is this necessary? If it is, why?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League

Keith Wachtel

We think that it's important for all sports books or anyone who is involved in the ecosystem to use the league's data. That is the verified data. I think it provides consumers with the feeling of authenticity and that it's backed by the property where the data's coming from.

We have noticed in the United States that all of the sports betting companies are securing that data directly from either the league or from third parties like Sportradar. They are happy to do so because they want the ability to provide the best information to the public in an authentic way.

We support it whether it is part of the regulations or not. We do believe that all the sports books will want to secure the league's data.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Without divulging specific parties or confidential negotiations, have you already been in some talks to license official league data in Canada?

11:20 a.m.

Chief Business Officer and Senior Executive Vice-President, Global Partnerships, National Hockey League

Keith Wachtel

No, we have not.

Having said that, from a sports betting standpoint, as part of our relationship with Rogers Media corporation, which has our exclusive rights to broadcast NHL games, Rogers has the rights to the league's data. They get all of those rights directly through us. We're obviously very pleased with the relationship that we have with Rogers.

If this bill gets passed, obviously we will then work with both Rogers and other parties in this area to make sure that anyone who is participating legally in sports betting would be able to access that data.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

We've heard from the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport that a key concern with single-event sports betting is match fixing. I know we have written submissions detailing annual gambling policy training, for instance, 15,000 NFL personnel and that sort of thing.

Does the NHL have a similar training program in place? If so, who is required to participate in the training? What does that training look like?

11:20 a.m.

Conal Berberich Vice-President, Legal, National Hockey League

Thank you for the question.

As we mentioned in our opening statement, we take integrity incredibly seriously. We have no concerns with integrity in our sport. It's something that we value as an inherent piece of competitive sports irrespective of any bill on sports betting, so we would always pursue integrity in any forum.

We are aware that there are a number of different approaches to it. There's a regulatory approach that we've seen across the United States requiring responsible gaming messaging and educational platforms so that participants are aware of the issues. We, ourselves, partner with responsible sports books and hold them to the highest standards in their messaging and their monitoring requirements. We also monitor for using data to ensure that there are no other abnormalities. As my colleague, Mr. Wachtel, mentioned in his opening statement, we also have a strict prohibition on player and employee wagering.

Our detailed policies are evolving and always keep in mind these important integrity considerations.