Justice Committee on May 13th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

We will now go to Mr. Garrison, for six minutes.

Please go ahead, sir.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thanks to all the witnesses for their valuable contributions today.

We've heard a lot about the impacts of COVID on seniors in institutional situations and the crisis that it produced there, which led to their neglect and abuse. I'm thankful for the reminder that most seniors do not live in institutional situations.

I'd like to ask our witnesses about the impact of COVID on the situation of elder abuse against those who are not in institutional situations. Maybe I can start with Ms. Naveed.

[Tehmina Naveed]

Thank you.

I would like to just share one of the experiences that we went through. As I said, cultural differences between the South Asian community, South Asian seniors, and the Canadian culture really exist. The seniors living with their children during the COVID situation do face a lot of restrictions on their movements. Just to take a walk, one of the seniors shared this experience. They said, “I not go even for five minutes to take a walk, and I stay in the basement because I don't want my children to blame me if anything happens. If anybody contracts or is exposed to COVID-19, for whatever reason, they may say that I went out and probably brought that in.”

That is the stress and the mental state that our seniors are going through because of this COVID situation. They don't want to hurt their families. They kill their own desire to go out. They want to go out. They want to socialize. They want at least to step out of the house to get fresh air, but they do not, because they do not want their families to suffer, and they don't want to get the blame for that.

That is something that has really gravely affected the seniors, and that's just one example. There are many who do not even go for a walk, or they don't talk to their friends. They don't even go and interact with their own family members, because they don't want to be a burden if they contract this disease.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

When you talked earlier about those who are already suffering from perhaps financial abuse or other kinds of abuse, would you say that the COVID crisis has made it even more difficult for them to overcome those cultural barriers in seeking help?

[Tehmina Naveed]

Absolutely, because of course during this time they are staying home and they're dependent on the children. Some of the children themselves have been laid off, some of them have lost their jobs, so they are also going through some financial crises. At this time if the parents ask for any financial support from the children, it again leads to further mental stress for both of them. Then, at times, that just turns into maybe abuse, which can be verbal abuse or some financial abuse, or at times it turns into physical abuse too.

That definitely has affected the seniors and the children also, I would say, and also the family members.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Naveed.

I'd like to ask the same question to Monsieur Robitaille in terms of the impact of COVID on clients he works with, and their ability to seek assistance.

[Mathieu Robitaille]

COVID-19 has definitely had a major impact on seniors; you need only consider the isolation they're forced into.

I've been in this occupation for about 20 years. However, in the past two years, for the first time, I've had to urge seniors to stay at home. We usually have to encourage them to get out, to engage in outdoor activities, to talk to people and to build a social network. Two years later, the effort that some seniors have made in this area will have to be started over from scratch.

One of the consequences of isolation is that people have less and less contact with others. Consequently, any mental health or other problems they may have will worsen. People then become more fragile.

Problems have definitely increased, even among the clientele I've observed to date.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Very quickly in my time remaining, can I ask the Canadian Association of Social Workers, either of our witnesses, about the challenges COVID has presented for social workers providing services to seniors?

[Patrick Fleming]

It has made it challenging because typically services that would go out to home visits or see people face to face have become much more limited. In that sense, then, that direct connection with the individual.... Many older adults don't have computer capacity at home, so the contact may be over the telephone as opposed to a virtual meeting like this. There is increased isolation, and it is causing, from a mental health perspective, increased feelings of anxiety, uncertainty. As mentioned by some of the other witnesses, the increased isolation is increasing symptoms of depression. For some individuals that may then lead to increased symptoms of psychosis.

It really is having a major impact, and it's making it challenging for us to provide that direct service.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fleming.

Thank you, Mr. Garrison. Looking at the clock, we have five minutes remaining on the hour. I recommend to members that we have perhaps one minute each per party.

If we're okay with that, we'll start with Mr. Tochor, please. You have one minute.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much. I'd like to thank the witnesses for your expertise and the work you do in the public service. Thank you very much, especially during these trying times for our seniors.

We talked about the impacts that COVID has had on seniors.

Madam Naveed, I'd like to hear what experiences you've had with seniors getting their vaccines right now. Are there are any stories of troubles? Is it indirectly abuse if they are not able to get fully vaccinated? Have you seen or heard that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

You have 30 seconds.

[Tehmina Naveed]

As I said, we have been working on the awareness and prevention of social isolation. For that, we've been conducting Zoom meetings weekly. Throughout these Zoom meetings we have made a point to educate the seniors who joined us—around 20 to 25 per week—to be able to know the impact of COVID-19, how to prevent contracting it and all those safety measures they have to take.

The vaccination part has also been a very important aspect that we have covered. We made sure that we give them exact information. The president of our organization is a microbiology Ph.D. He really does the research and he provides very accurate information to all those seniors. We have seen that the families have really co-operated. I won't say if they have been abused, but not in our experience. The families have been very co-operative with all the information they got. That was also provided by the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Ms. Yip for one minute. Please go ahead.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Seniors in my riding of Scarborough—Agincourt come from a diverse background. Many come from a culture that carries a deep respect for elders. Despite this, we know that elder abuse rates are higher in the racialized communities and especially for women. I'm just aware that there are cultural sensitivities that may discourage victims from reporting elder abuse.

Ms. Luo, in your experience, what are the best practices in navigating these cultural sensitivities and engaging with diverse communities in a meaningful way?

[Prof. Hai Luo]

What you mentioned is actually extensively addressed in the literature. Racialized groups have significant problems with elder abuse, to my knowledge and also theoretical elaboration. That's why we address the collaboration among multiple disciplines.

In the literature, elder abuse happens in multiple diverse cultural backgrounds. It is, for example, language tutors who noted that first, as opposed to elder abuse cases in other racial groups. It is the house professional who would identify it first. That's one of the things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Fortin for one minute.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

A minute goes by quickly. Unfortunately, we won't have time to explore everything we'd like to discuss.

I'm quickly going to ask Mr. Robitaille my question.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about the difference between the situation in big cities such as Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and Quebec City and that in regional cities like Saint-Jérôme, where you work, Mr. Robitaille.

[Mathieu Robitaille]

In Saint-Jérôme and surrounding cities, our problems are twofold because rural and urban areas involve two different approaches. In the urban approach, isolation is a fact, but services are available, and so the situation is simpler. In rural areas, access to services is a problem as result of distance. I'm thinking, for example, of access to soup kitchens, materials and so on.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Is Internet access a problem for seniors living in the regions?

[Mathieu Robitaille]

Yes, it's becoming a problem. Access to services, whether limited by distance or connection problems, may indeed be an issue.

What I can also tell you, based on what I've seen at seniors' homes is that, even if they have Internet access, knowing how to use online services is a problem in itself. Online grocery apps, for example, are complicated for seniors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Fortin.

We'll now go to Mr. Garrison for a minute.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

I just want to go back to the Canadian Association of Social Workers to follow up on services to seniors and ask about social work services for those who live in institutional situations. Are social workers generally on staff at institutions for long-term care, and have you noticed a difference between the availability of services between profit and non-profit long-term care homes?

[Patrick Fleming]

I can only speak from an Ontario perspective on that, because it is different from province to province and territory.

In Ontario, the long-term care act is very vague in the level of social work service within the legislation. Basically, there is no specific mandate that long-term care homes have to have a social worker on staff, and in fact, the majority of them don't have a social worker on staff, so they would hire out. They may hire a social service worker as opposed to more highly educated social workers. Many of the psychosocial issues for older adults in long-term care are not properly dealt with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Mr. Garrison.

With that, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for your very compelling testimony this morning. We really appreciate your contributions.

If there are clarifications or additional information you'd like to provide, please send it in writing to our clerk of the committee, who will then circulate it to members.

We'll suspend briefly as we let in our second panel of witnesses.