Justice Committee on May 13th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting 34 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

I have just a few housekeeping notes. Today, we have MP Jean Yip, who is replacing MP James Maloney. Welcome, Jean.

Stéphane Lauzon is also back to replace Mike Kelloway.

Good morning, Mr. Lauzon.

We also have MP Tochor, who is replacing MP Kerry-Lynne Findlay. Welcome, Corey. It's great to have you on our justice committee, I think for the first time.

We are continuing our study on elder abuse.

To ensure an orderly meeting today, I will go over some rules for the witnesses and for the members.

Interpretation services are available to everybody who is listening. At the bottom of your Zoom screen, make sure that you've selected the language that you'd like to listen to. You can speak in either of our two official languages. If you need to get my attention, just use the “raise hand” function at the bottom of the screen and I will call on you.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you, and before you start speaking, ensure that you unmute yourself, which is again at the bottom of the screen. Speak slowly and clearly. Once you are done speaking, please ensure that you are back on mute.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. With regard to a speakers list and a speaking order, Mr. Clerk and I will do our best to maintain an orderly meeting.

For the witnesses, just for your reference, I have a one-minute and a 30-second time card that will help you keep track of your time.

Before we start with the introduction of our witnesses today, I'd like to get the committee's approval of the operational budget that was distributed to members yesterday. The budget is in the amount of $4,100. It will serve to pay our expenses for this current study on elder abuse.

Do I have everyone’s approval? Do I see a thumbs-up from members?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate that.

Now I would like to welcome our witnesses.

Mathieu Robitaille is a community intervenor at the Centre d'action bénévole Saint-Jérôme.

We also have the Canadian Association of Social Workers, represented by Hai Luo, who is a content expert and associate professor in the Faculty of Social Work at the University of Manitoba; and Patrick Fleming, who is a content expert and social worker.

We also have Pak Pioneers Community Organization of Canada, represented by Tehmina Naveed, who is the executive director.

Welcome to all of you.

We'll start with the Canadian Association of Social Workers for opening remarks of five minutes.

[Patrick Fleming, Content Expert and Social Worker, Canadian Association of Social Workers]

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee and for inviting us to provide a social work perspective on this important study on elder abuse.

My name is Patrick Fleming and I am here on behalf of the CASW. I work at the London Health Sciences Centre in the geriatric mental health program. I'm happy to be here today with my colleague, Hai Luo.

The Canadian Association of Social Workers is a national association, a voice for social work in Canada, with a dual mission to promote the profession and advance social justice issues. Our profession emphasizes the inherent dignity, worth and agency of all persons.

CASW strongly supports and emphasizes the urgent need to work collectively to address and prevent elder abuse. “Elder abuse is a single or repeated act or lack of appropriate action occurring within any relationship where there is an expectation of trust that causes harm or distress to an older person.” With their varied roles throughout our communities, social workers are uniquely positioned to offer insight on this issue.

CASW has long been active in advancing policy proposals and frameworks that align with our social justice mandates while aiming to see Canada meet the social determinants of health. Policies such as the universal basic income and the social care act have the power to address and combat the underlying factors that often lead to elder abuse. Forgoing these vital social policies can create and perpetuate situations in which older adults experience abuse.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes it illegal to discriminate on grounds of age. However, Canadian law is not grounded in a single definition that applies to elder abuse or neglect. Risk factors for elder abuse include stress related to caregiving, social isolation, limited cognitive ability, mental illness, poverty, ageism and the overuse or abuse of illicit drugs and/or alcohol. As well, the diversity of aging Canadian populations, such as newcomers, racialized groups, indigenous peoples and 2SLGBTQ+ groups, further complicates the prevention and intervention of elder abuse.

Social workers are painfully aware of the prevalence and impact of elder abuse across Canada. However, data and statistics are woefully lacking. The most recent and authoritative national study on abuse against the elderly was conducted in 2004. The Government of Canada has taken essential steps in the right direction by expanding the guaranteed income supplement and old age security, as well as increasing funds for home care and more. These are essential steps but they don't go far enough in providing the support this population requires and deserves.

I would now like to pass over to my colleague, Hai Luo, to provide further comments.

[Professor Hai Luo, Associate Professor, Faculty of Social Work, University of Manitoba, Content Expert, Canadian Association of Social Workers]

Thank you, Patrick.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Hai. I'm an associate professor with the faculty of social work at the University of Manitoba. I'm also a research affiliate at the Centre on Aging.

As the committee members are aware, the provinces and territories have various acts and legislation to protect residents' safety and rights while living in a communal setting. The COVID-19 pandemic has brought needed attention to how we care for Canada's seniors. Although the crisis in long-term care is dire, the reality is that most older adults live in communities. This means that both contexts must be robustly addressed. There are trends of under-reporting, unawareness and fear that make it challenging for older adults to receive the justice and support they require.

There are many excellent existing programs and initiatives doing vital work, such as local elder abuse networks. However, these networks receive little to no funding. We know that a coordinated approach requires sustained infrastructure.

Finally, the current patchwork of laws, regulations and definitions is a significant problem. The absence of synchronized and comprehensive efforts, stable definitions and robust tracking and reporting means Canada will not tackle this issue. Without a coordinated approach to ensure economic and social well-being, older adults in Canada will continue to experience poverty, homelessness and social isolation. Any additional efforts to combat elder abuse will not be successful if these underlying factors are not addressed.

Consequently, CASW recommends the federal government first and foremost develop a funded, multi-year national elder abuse strategy. This overarching strategy must complement and support current federal and provincial efforts and have structural, formal links to work in collaboration with the national home care strategy, and poverty reduction and housing strategies. Additional recommendations can be found in our brief submitted to the committee.

From the social work perspective—

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you, Ms. Luo. Hopefully, we'll get the rest of it out during the question-and-answer period.

Now we'll turn to Ms. Naveed from the Pak Pioneers Community Organization.

Please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Tehmina Naveed, Executive Director, Pak Pioneers Community Organization of Canada]

Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to share our observations with this justice committee for its elder abuse study.

My name is Tehmina Naveed. I am the executive director of Pak Pioneers Community Organization of Canada, which serves the community on the whole and the South Asian community especially for the past 10 years. We focus on helping seniors of South Asian origin stay connected with people of their age group and prevent social isolation. For this purpose, we have established an older adults group called the Senior Pioneers Club. We are based in Mississauga and serve the GTA, including the Milton and Brampton areas.

During our involvement with the community, we have organized many seminars, workshops and lectures on elder abuse prevention and published a documentary short film on YouTube to make as many elders as possible aware of the signs of elder abuse and who to contact for help. During our short time period of serving the community, we have been indirectly informed by the people about any victims of abuse and have shared contact information with them to get them the help they need.

There are many differences between the South Asian and the Canadian cultures when it comes to the parents' expectations of their children. The South Asian parents expect their children to take full responsibility for caring for them in their old age, as they have educated and fully financially supported them in their younger age. However, when the children sponsor their parents to come to Canada to live with them, the seniors go through cultural shock. They are not very fluent in the English language, and become dependent on their children, especially when dealing with the banks or any other government departments. Their basic rights and needs are often neglected, and they are made to feel like burdens on their own children.

Older adults are dependent on their children when it comes to the financial management of their wealth because they may not have access to their bank accounts directly or are unable to use online banking, so either their children or some relative manage their accounts. That's how they misuse the funds for themselves, thus financially abusing the parents. We have come to know of a few seniors complaining that they just get $100 or maybe a couple of hundred dollars for their monthly expenses out of their old age benefits or pensions. The rest of the amount is taken by the children because they say, “We are keeping you in our house. We are taking care of you. We are giving you food and other necessities of life, so you don't need any extra money for yourself.”

When older adults face fraud or some financial scam, they do not know where to go or whom to complain to due to lack of awareness, which causes depression and a lot of stress, which leads to poor mental health. A majority of the victims of fraud and scams do not tell any of their family members, as they feel embarrassed and ashamed. The justice system takes a lot of time, which means that the seniors will have more stress knowing that their money is all gone, which worsens their health conditions and may lead to their ending up in hospital. The person who has lost all that money because of the fraud is usually in great need of money, and they must wait a long time for justice to be done. To help prevent all this from happening, we must work on getting justice delivered faster so that seniors don't end up in hospital and don't face more emotional stress and declining mental health.

It has also been observed in the South Asian community that seniors who are living with their children are not usually allowed by the children to go out on their own, especially in the winter, as they may have an accident or may slip and fall. Then the children would have to bear the medical expenses or have to take care of the parents, which is an extra liability on them with their work and their responsibility for their children. It's very hard for them to do that, and they end up restricting them to inside the house. As the older adults are dependent on their children, their children usually make the seniors babysit their kids full-time and/or ask them to pick up and drop off the children. For this, they have to stay at home all the time and cannot go out to meet friends, socialize or network with other people. This also makes them feel isolated.

Seniors are also experiencing physical abuse and sexual abuse, but the South Asian seniors do not report sexual abuse or even share that with anyone, not even their friends, as they are ashamed of it due to cultural barriers. This is also why we do not have exact numbers and data, as many are not comfortable disclosing this information. We work to connect them with the organizations that are working professionally in this field.

Our organization would suggest that the government make policies to ensure a safe environment within elder care facilities and individual seniors homes by providing financial support and by establishing seniors homes that are focused on specific ethnic communities to serve visible minority groups and provide culturally sensitive services. This will also help reduce some of the fear that has been instilled in the seniors by their children—of the abuse they would face in these homes—which leads to them further tolerating various forms of abuse within their respective homes.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much, Ms. Naveed. Hopefully, the rest of your testimony comes out in questions.

We are still without Mr. Robitaille. We'll go ahead into our rounds of questions. Should he join us at a later time, we'll squeeze him in between our questioning.

We'll start with Mr. Cooper from the Conservatives.

You have six minutes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I'll direct my first question to you, Mr. Fleming. You cited the woeful lack of data. I'd be curious to hear you speak to that more broadly and why it is so important that we have that data. I would note that in the mandate letter to the Minister of Seniors, investing in better data collection and law enforcement related to elder abuse is featured prominently, and yet we've seen really no action on the part of the federal government when it comes specifically to data collection in a law enforcement context when it comes to seniors.

Can you speak to that?

[Patrick Fleming]

I can speak to the fact that, one, we don't have a specific universal definition of elder abuse. That in itself in data collection makes that challenging.

On the other, I'll speak locally, provincially and nationally in that there are no clear policies and protocols in tracking issues of elder abuse. For example, in the province of Ontario, there are only two pieces of legislation that actually mandate reporting elder abuse, the long-term care act and the retirement home care act. In many spots across the country, there is no mandatory reporting of abuse of older adults.

So it's a combination of that and no specific protocols being put in place for agencies and services to collect that data. In talking to different police services, their challenge is that, again, if you look at the Criminal Code act, what would be forms of abuse or breaking the law in that? There are many forms of elder abuse that occur that do not, quote, “break the law” within the Criminal Code act. From police service to police service, it's about how they track information and how they see situations occurring—i.e., if they connect age to it or if it's just a broad base that there was fraud or burglary or assault or something like that.

That's where some of the challenge is. Some of the services may not actually have it age-connected as opposed to just event-connected.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

You cited the lack of a clear definition of elder abuse, and I think Ms. Luo mentioned the same in her testimony. Could either of you speak to that? When we look specifically at the Criminal Code, do you think it would be helpful that in future Criminal Code amendments there be a clear definition of elder abuse?

[Prof. Hai Luo]

I can speak briefly to that.

Yes, I would definitely support that, although it is very difficult to have a universal definition. Right now in the Criminal Code there is no inclusion of such things as verbal abuse, emotional abuse or neglect.

Yes, I would support that idea, but I'm not a legal expert. I would hope that other professionals would be able to take up that piece.

Thank you.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Great. Thank you for that.

When we look at the Criminal Code, for example, that falls exclusively within the jurisdiction of Parliament. You have cited some gaps in the code, but, broadly speaking, is it a Criminal Code issue, a lack of tools—I guess, in part, it is—a resource issue or a reporting issue, and what are some of the things that you're finding, or certainly social workers and nurses finding on the front lines, and how might Parliament or the federal government work to address those?

It's a broad question.

[Prof. Hai Luo]

I could answer briefly to that.

If Patrick has anything to add, please do so, because I have two other paragraphs to finish in my report.

The CASW is proposing to have a collaborative national strategy to work on that. Legal definition is definitely one important issue, but another thing is that all related agencies should work together to get training and do public education on the signs and risk factors for elder abuse.

In the literature, it is reported and is documented, across many different studies, that for every elder abuse reported case, there are five cases that remain unreported. Then the general estimate—

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Yes, Mr. Lauzon?

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

There is no translation, because we have a mike open somewhere from one of the members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you for pointing that out.

Can I ask witnesses and members to please mute your mikes.

Perfect. Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Ms. Luo.

[Prof. Hai Luo]

Thank you.

I wanted to add one last point, that the estimated prevalence of rate across the studies is 16% to 18% in every country, in every study in Canada and North America. Based on that estimation from the literature, I think some legal efforts are needed here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

We will now go on to Madame Brière, for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Yes, Mr. Lauzon?

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

With your permission, before Ms. Brière starts, I just want to note that I see Mr. Robitaille has arrived. He was unable to make his opening remarks as a result of technical difficulties.

Wouldn't it be appropriate to let him make his opening remarks now so we can also ask him questions afterward?

I leave that to your discretion, but I think it's wise to start with Mr. Robitaille's presentation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Iqra Khalid]

Thank you very much for that, Monsieur Fortin. That is an excellent suggestion.

We will stop here and go to Monsieur Robitaille for his opening remarks, for five minutes.

As a quick introduction, Monsieur Robitaille is the community intervenor at the Centre d'action bénévole Saint-Jérôme.

Welcome.

[Mathieu Robitaille, Community Intervenor, Centre d'action bénévole Saint-Jérôme, As an Individual]

Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to be with you.

I've been asked to introduce myself and to describe some of my experience with vulnerable seniors who are at risk of violence or of finding themselves in abusive situations.

I unfortunately don't have any statistics or figures to provide, but I'm pleased to be learning a little about the subject. However, what I see, based on my experience, is that many seniors are becoming vulnerable as a result of the system in place.

Most of the seniors I meet in the course of my work have a lot of financial concerns that cause them additional problems.

Here's an example of a case involving the CERB, the Canada emergency response benefit. Members of one senior's circle made him file an application, which he did. He then received a CERB of $19,000. That's the amount he normally receives every year from the guaranteed income supplement and old age pension. What could happen to him—and we very much fear that it will—is that the government may then cut those benefits by as much as $8,000 or $9,000 for next year because he has already received that CERB amount. That will put him in a very tough position.

Here's another example. Two years ago, a senior had trouble with his tax return. Thanks to the community volunteer tax program, the CVTP, the Centre d'action bénévole fortunately has people who complete tax returns for low-income individuals, and we continue helping late filers all year long. To put it briefly, we try to rectify the situation, the government is aware of that situation, and corrective action can be taken. Unfortunately, despite the fact that we filed an adjustment request more than a year, nearly two years, ago, the adjustment hasn't yet been made. This person is therefore deprived of that money. He has been in a difficult financial position for a year now because something downstream hasn't been corrected. This is becoming a form of abuse of this person because he's the one experiencing these problems as a result of the adjustment delay.

When I say the situation is caused by the system, I mean it, and this is the kind of situation in which people ultimately find themselves.

At some point, it seems appropriate to ask what's really needed in this entire situation in order to help seniors and resolve problems that may arise with governments.

I realize I'm talking a lot about the federal government, but that's because I'm with you right now.

I have another example for you. When seniors need to identify themselves, they have to phone two levels of government. The problem with that is that, when we make calls, we have to wait a very long time.

In one particular case, I went to a senior's home to help him resolve a matter because making calls was a problem for him right off the bat. It took us an hour, trying four or five times, to resolve a situation regarding an old age pension application which could have been done 10 months earlier.

At that point, we learned that it took two months to process the application before the deadline, and once the deadline had passed, or a week or two before that, we learned that he wouldn't receive his full amount because he might have earned more money previously. So we had to file another form so he could get the full amount. That put him in a difficult situation relative to other people, who could then abuse it.

In my opinion, the idea should be to avoid adding to people's problems. I understand why people talk a lot about the legal aspect of matters, but we should avoid putting people in situations where they have to ask virtually everybody for help.

That concludes my remarks.

Thank you for listening.